Tribe.net. Local Connections prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#aef4c132-c64d-425a-aede-1fcd96bd6335 2009-01-26T06:17:55Z 2009-01-26T06:17:55Z

But what I find is uncontrolled name calling,fighting and bickering. ----------- this is the result of devolution, entropy, and the chaos that happens when tribe trust the trolls as their primary partner. What happened is simple to understand. Tribe did not have an understanding of moderation skills and thus could not employ them. They were unable to make sense of conflicts and thus not able to deal with them fairly or justly either. Because of this, trolls were slowly able to come to dominate all of the tribe tribes, and tribe thinks of this as natural and as a representation of the user base, when the truth is that the reverse is true; trolls have simply conquered these tribes and they drive everybody else off. in order to solve the problem the first order of business is dealign with the people who will argue against you because they are abusers who don't want to be stopped.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-26T06:17:55Z OHM http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#4cb7b08a-7da0-4f12-8807-2c770ceab31b 2009-01-26T05:17:04Z 2009-01-26T05:17:04Z

<would tribe be willing to moderate its tribes? > This is quite scary to me. I thought I might find some help here. But what I find is uncontrolled name calling,fighting and bickering. I've written a letter to who ever that is at the top of the page you know, where it says moderator, But after reading all this, Well, I really don't, Hold out much HOPE.

OHM 2009-01-26T05:17:04Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#8179e271-51f8-45a3-b353-682c4ef0e79c 2009-01-26T05:05:44Z 2009-01-26T05:05:44Z

I must have missed something. Did someone say THIS is an OFFICIAL Tribe? Surely you Jest! How can that be? What Tribe is this? I think I stepped over into a Nasty Parallel Universe that , is in fact NOT MODERATED alas , AT ALL -------------- when i observe that tribe tribes appear to be unmoderated and thus seem to be unprofessional, that makes me feel sad and abandoned. because our need is to have a sane and professional environment with which to deal with real issues and real life rather than mere noise, would tribe be willing to moderate its tribes?

prometheusPAN 2009-01-26T05:05:44Z OHM http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#803a66c9-72d3-43bc-8d9c-b40001c080f0 2009-01-26T04:37:14Z 2009-01-26T04:37:14Z

I must have missed something. Did someone say THIS is an OFFICIAL Tribe? Surely you Jest! How can that be? What Tribe is this? I think I stepped over into a Nasty Parallel Universe that , is in fact NOT MODERATED alas , AT ALL

OHM 2009-01-26T04:37:14Z Bloke. Trivia Pimp http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#3cf38561-68fa-46bb-8249-00011d986485 2009-01-26T01:25:39Z 2009-01-26T01:25:39Z

<I'd probably put a stop to it. But that's just me. :> You just saying that because you are wearing a trench coat and hat. A Shady Prairie Dog..

Bloke. Trivia Pimp 2009-01-26T01:25:39Z Craig http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#f3c84b7a-f02e-4b79-8894-0f7c7c6376da 2009-01-25T12:14:56Z 2009-01-25T12:14:56Z

Hmmm. I do have to say I don't know many other sites where the 'official' posting areas invite random static like this one does. Whether that's good or bad is up to the people who have to deal with it. If it were me, I'd probably put a stop to it. But that's just me. :)

Craig 2009-01-25T12:14:56Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#d6b4be29-bb6d-47a3-8d5d-7f995dd3495c 2009-01-25T07:15:13Z 2009-01-25T07:15:13Z

i'm sure you are not alone in that. :)

prometheusPAN 2009-01-25T07:15:13Z Bloke. Trivia Pimp http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#a7642a1c-51e7-43ae-b250-ee92a06da61c 2009-01-25T05:18:48Z 2009-01-25T05:18:48Z

<People here just want a place to casually bullshit with each other> Sure, in many tribes. But when "offical" tribes get full of noise.. it makes me want to avoid them.

Bloke. Trivia Pimp 2009-01-25T05:18:48Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#2ecda19b-1e15-4936-b4bc-8f0b76ae2907 2009-01-21T21:36:41Z 2009-01-21T21:36:41Z

i'm sure thats true of the white noise.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-21T21:36:41Z Pimpy http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#e6f99392-c42e-46a2-b950-03a18600c304 2009-01-21T21:14:41Z 2009-01-21T21:14:41Z

Actually, people here just want you two to shut the fuck up. Or maybe that's just me.

Pimpy 2009-01-21T21:14:41Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#6a45393e-11f4-4fd9-bdc8-3df2666c1ff5 2009-01-21T21:13:29Z 2009-01-21T21:13:29Z

Again, go start your on system since the user base doesn't appear to agree with you and your holistic methodology if synigeristic strategem for a Utopian online haven for enlightening individuals to discuss quantum harmony. People here just want a place to casually bullshit with each other. --S

Shatter 2009-01-21T21:13:29Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#8110ef58-69c0-4829-b7b3-d8e09f031239 2009-01-21T20:25:12Z 2009-01-21T20:25:12Z

...and you still haven't gotten the hint yet? --------- the hint is irrelevant. tribe will either go the direction i am pointing or it will die. over the long term, all you offer it is your happy parasitism. over the long term, i'm helping and your just a pest.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-21T20:25:12Z Timbozo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#b66f8009-34e6-419b-840d-cae44b0f4dd2 2009-01-21T20:01:21Z 2009-01-21T20:01:21Z

I agree. Moderator, please start deleting off topic posts here in the FAQ tribe forthwith.

Timbozo 2009-01-21T20:01:21Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#3b1aeb1a-f9a5-4ed0-a892-54e2c1c3473e 2009-01-18T04:59:46Z 2009-01-18T04:59:46Z

"I have been there and done that. same problem there here and everywhere." ...and you still haven't gotten the hint yet? --S

Shatter 2009-01-18T04:59:46Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#14f2a3c6-6335-4981-8c3d-f378779c3953 2009-01-18T04:56:36Z 2009-01-18T04:56:29Z

"what is that, an email address? how am i supposed to make sense of that or use it or parse it? " I thought you were a #geek. From now on describe yourself as !geek. --S

Shatter 2009-01-18T04:56:29Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#b4439abc-db61-4022-bc45-b1b4a3bcd306 2009-01-18T04:30:53Z 2009-01-18T04:30:53Z

# reply to this post # prom... prometheusPAN online 114 new post Re: When will the killfile for Prometheus Pan be available? Today, 6:49 PM in response to: Re: When will the killfile for Prometheus Pan b... what is that, an email address? how am i supposed to make sense of that or use it or parse it? reply to this post # Trib... Tribe.net Help S offline 81 new post Re: When will the killfile for Prometheus Pan be available? Today, 7:05 PM in response to: Re: When will the killfile for Prometheus Pan b... The brilliance of having an IQ of 180 means that you should be able to understand the one line replies, too. You might also consider brainstorm.tribe.net for any new ideas you'd like to discuss with other members as well. ----------- you might consider either paying more attention or taking things more seriously, i'm not sure which. next time, you might try actually answering the question so that i don't have to use google to figure out what ya all are saying. :)

prometheusPAN 2009-01-18T04:30:53Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#49645e97-13a2-49c9-b7b7-5276b2513a84 2009-01-18T04:28:03Z 2009-01-18T04:27:35Z

http://bm.tribe.net/thread/4f396fde-b483-4a20-95a1-cb788bb7c873 see, now you could have made that a lot easier, couldn't you have? tribes » Cultures & Community » Burning Man » topics » e-mail: feedback@tribe.net topic posted Tu

prometheusPAN 2009-01-18T04:27:35Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#d699579c-9e2e-41a9-97ef-2f7efccadf34 2009-01-18T04:26:45Z 2009-01-18T04:26:45Z

http://www.google.com/search?q=feedback%40tribe.net+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a not much there.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-18T04:26:45Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#723cfeca-16d9-45ce-b919-0059ad2594c3 2009-01-18T04:24:36Z 2009-01-18T04:24:36Z

The prometheuspan plan for solving the current troll/alpha dog dominion violence headtrip that is the cancer that keeps civilization stupid. 1. These principles must be utterly pragmatic to employ as rules in a forum, and yet be long term social engineering principles which look at the long term and gently shape it. 2. These principles must apply in each case the core principle of the balance between severity and mercy. Without enough of both yin or yang, the universe or any system which is a microfractal impression of the core scalar fractal holomorph will fall out of balance. A. This includes al kinds of systems, for instance weather which needs a day and night cycle, or social systems which require a certain amount of rules to enforce civility yet not enough rules to take away anybodies liberties. A large amount of rhetoric of the far right is based on a panic driven duality schema where they say if things go off in the direction of more rules or to many rules civilization will crumble. the interesting thing is that the balance point they are pointing at is real. But the current balance is skewed so far off balance to the right that the roof has now become a leg which lands over in insane retardsville. 3. The core problem of ignorance as it plays out in pack psychology; people fighting over things they know nothing about. B. Thus the core cure of education. Not unsubbing, public humiliation, or other forms of negative re-enforcement. You must employ pavlovs core gift to humanity in order to fix this problem. C. that core gift is this; No amount of merely negative re-enforcement ever makes any situation better, it just makes the criminals better or slyer or more twisted. You can't beat a dog into submission for long, eventually if you don't also love it its going to decide to finish the nightmare alpha monster as best as it can. D. Thus the true core of severity is its balance counterpoint in this and most instances; the system is only as good as the judgements made in bringing things up... you could call it the parental love side of the force. On the other hand on te severity or discipline side of the force you have what we might have to call parental discipline. The real truth about applying parental discipline with a child or an adult human whos behaving as one is that the truth is you can only claim moral authority with a person by demonstrating to them that you are doing your best to treat them and their situation fairly. E. Thus 'Discipline" in any successful adventure, even with a child is a love driven account system with very occasional negative energy withdrawals of large sums. IE, the parent gives to the child positive energy, and more positive energy; the child behaves badly, the adult gives a very short burst of negative energy which drains the emotional bonding account between parent and child. A parent must see that account in the childs mind and make sense of it and love a child in a manner that brings them up and opens doors for them to grow into places instead of boxing them in to keep them safe from themselves. F.The discipline side of a public forum is then the civility created by a successful moderation team who firstly acts to educate and empower its user base, as well as lead some discussion forums, but who then incidentally deals with the same crowd or mob to settle or resolve disputes as opportunities for educational demonstrative process. 4. Every person carries with them a shadow or subconscious elements of self which are for most people entirely subliminal. In public forums common parlance, we can call that aspect of self the inner troll. Everyone has an inner troll, and the curious thing about having an inner troll is its another part of you you have to take care of. A. Theres nothing wrong with sparring where both participants have agreed thats what they want to do. B. It is however assault to soft spar somebody who has not agreed to the new social conditions of soft sparring. C. Similarly, verbal or written communication can be used for psychological warfare. And thats an entire trip stretch. Its a place a lot of people get trapped inside of and they never learn to put down their pitchforks. D. Thanks to those people human civilization is incidentally still a big phat verbal abuse pitchfork society. Which is barbaric, primitive, stupid, self defeating, self dating, and ultimately which brings evolution to a grinding halt around the situation of breeding people stupid so that they will vote republican. And then make good propaganda war foot soldiers in their orwellian society... all the while pretending that any attempt to improve things is some form of socialist fascism. E. Given how pack psychology, the dominant social and political and religious paradigms, and egotism as well as what happens given that reality is based on fractal scalar mirroring, thus; F. the relationship any person has with society as a whole is some vague mirror of the relationship they have with themselves and vice versa; G. the relationship any person has with themselves is the relationship most people project at others socially. H. A person who does this is trapped in the matrix, and curiously you can demonstrate their trappedness very easily using formal conversational logic if you know what you are doing. 5. Conversational logic is the true golden science which fixes this if we pay attention. The science has ruled on this, but society hasn't caught up. a. Ad hominems. An ad hominem is a personal attack. In truth there are different version of what an ad hominem is depending on how formal the conversation is. In some debate situations, an ad hominem is defined as ANY USE OF ANY REFERENCE AT ALL TO THE COMMUNICATEE IN THE BODY OF THE MESSAGE>... You are allowed to greet and you are allowed to say goodbye, but in the strictest sense, the moment a person starts talking about the other person rather than the persons stated ideas they have drifted from focus on what is relevant. In more common parlance, or in legal language, for instance, an ad hominem is committed any time a person specifically attacks another person. In either case, an ad hominem is wrong because it makes the talker the subject and thus changes the subject. b. straw man arguments. When somebody misrepresents what you said and distorts it, or creates an entirely new argument and claims that its yours, and then knocks that down instead of your argument, thats a straw man argument. C. Double bind. The best example i am in often is the jerk who insults me ten times for being an idiot according to them and then holds it against me later for "bragging" that my IQ is 180. Well, my IQ is 180, and they are the ones who brought up the subject of my intelligence. Or the people whos argument is that you spammed them. Right so your argument is "i can't handle this its too big and i don't have enough attention span to look at it so you are bad for even bringing it up" kinds of trippers. Your then damned if you do bother to present the information they obviously don't have and damned if you don't by such logic. d. There are these things in language called propositiions, syllogisms, and arguments. Learn what they are and how they stack into each other. e. Then there is the definition, in conversational logic, of validity, cogency, and TRUTH VALUE. f. While the current trend is of course anarchy and anarchism with trolls laying claim to waste any ideas to do anything smarter, the first site on the net which actually employs formal logic to drive both moderation and administration (leading conversations and tossing TROLLS off by confiscating their accounts.) will evolve rapidly into a viral phenomenon. This will make such a site extremely popular once it takes off, and will then spawn a new set of competition variables as other places try to implement and create similar social situations. g. The main reason for this is that formal logic organizes the grand conversation into something auto self searched. With one good moderator leading a conversation with their head also in a textbook, that moderator can lead a conversation which is incredibly smart, informative, interesting, and orders of magnitude better than what wikipedia can now do because it too is based still on pack psychology. h. The second reason for this is that formal logic directly weeds out social parasites so effectively and so quickly that the social energies now being employed to keep the population ignorant would be blown off and the natural evolutionary sequence which has been being held back by an enormous artificial earth dam can burst through all that and claim everything waiting for us at the next intellectual evolutionary level. i. Conversational logic is thus the "Severity" side of our model. It turns you into a coldly rational and calculating individual with no biases and a clear and lucid understanding of the difference between what you really do know and what you probably don't. 6. Non Violent communication or NVC is a relationship and communications meta model which converts positive energy relating into a very simple ritualized form of conversation. 7. Maslow and Pavlov fill out the rest of the side of mercy. 8. My suggestion to tribe then is this; 1. Run a user based back ground check on the hard core users who are interested in it, and then pick 3 user liasons per each paid staff member. 2. These volunteers will act as secretaries and as a sort of interface with tribers. 3. The new moderators will not have unsub powers for tribe as a whole but should have limited global moderation powers to do things like move posts. (deletion is always problematic as then its missing. Organizing it is better. Similarly, don't unsub an account, get into it as an admin and change the password. Think how much easier that would now make the task of giving me back my old account. (prometheuspan@hotmail.com. I was unsubbed for reporting a stalker.I wasn't asking for her removal i was asking for a moderator to talk some sense into her.And then later warning people in tribes about her once i saw her in action abusing others. She got like a dozen people unsubbed before the staff unsubbed her apparently realizing who was the real culprit.) 4. The new moderators will HOST tribe. that means that they will chat with tribers in a few limited tribes, lead conversations in those tribes, and occasionally come into situations as a third element in a dispute larger than a single tribe. 5. Preferably if its done right using 100 instances of that(dealing with inter/multi tribe disputes.) to teach the mob how not to do it and then not having to deal with it much after that. 6. Have your moderation team open not just the five or ten tribe tribes that now exist but a whole new batch of main tribe tribes which tribe can now feature, where the moderators lead conversations smart and ultra civil as demonstrations of how it can be done that way. The list of topics is as easy as obamas platform planks plus 50 sciences. With a tribe on astronomy thats got good moderation, you should have a virtual open ended textbook on astronomy that beats google searches for depth, quality and ease of access as well as information density. IE; show tribers how smart management of a tribe can turn a tribe into something truly useful, educational, ultra civil, and etc. 7. Don't require all tribes to be like that. 8. Each tribe has its own sort of charter for social protocols and thats as it should be. Global moderators should take this into account. A troll who starts a troll tribe to play innocently with their inner and other peoples trolls can be left alone to bicker and ad hominem and straw man away to his hearts content; thats that tribes version of social order and it has its own logic and rules which should be respected. 9. By one definition then a TROLL is somebody who tries to change the social order always back to pack psychology and bully tactics; a verbal bully. a. all bullies by definition are actually weak minded vampires. b. so if you help their minds get stronger, they can fix, or... c. If you help them put together a psychology kit thats self sufficient, they can quit being vampires. d. The real key to problem solving process with TROLLS is to see them as victims of bad ideas. good moderation is not about punishing somebody, its about educating them and empowering them to have a better tactic. Its not about caging people, but about liberating them. 10. The troll complaint against rules is that such interfere with personal liberty. What is never discussed and never pointed out is that a sociey run by pack psychology and bullies isn't a liberated society either. A bullies idea is that its his personal liberty to boss people around, harass them, stalk them, belittle, slander, attack, etc. That idea is a wrong idea, ethically, socially, and by now, perhaps most important evolutionarilly. The real truth abut cages and liberty in social systems is that we now exist in a civilization of wage slavery as a cage and troll propaganda warfare for our intellectual public discourse. Its pathetic.Its a cage, and the way out of it is to realize that good rules don't hinder personal liberty, they are the ballwarks and the foundations upon which a society gains enough energy for us to have personal liberties.You can't be liberated or free in a society which sees you as a labor commodity or which treats you like meat. You can't be liberated or free in a tribe where TROLLZ shoot down all of the better thinking by attacking the geeks so that they can be the alphas. Good social rules are the wings a social system uses to fly. Without them, any social system is going to be grounded in the banal, and confined to the lowest common denominators in terms of IQ and attention span. So the real truth is that the trolls are the ones selling mental cages and i am the one whos offering true liberty. 11. To implement a successful moderation system requires close attention to the above principle. Moderation is not about controlling people, its about giving them the wings to let them fly. The trolls are projecting their trip about their own mental cages, which has nothing to do with reality as it is. THEIR rules are the mental cage. True liberty is when a group of 30 people fall into phase and become a super genius think tank off exploring some interesting aspect of reality. True liberty is when your ten hobby groups totally rock and your life is awesome because you have such great support for your hobby group. 12. So, you have your moderation team running these tribes aimed for peak performance in demonstration of what a tribe can do; the very top of what can be done with a tribe. And those demonstrations then help people to learn and to see what to do and how to work making their own tribes better. And if you are smart, eventually what happens is the moderation styles somewhat catch on, and then tribe becomes a place with lots of "troll" hang outs but without an over-all TROLL dominance of the site. 13. This is of course just a bullet point brief, I can detail it but i think it might be better to work democratically towards detailing better than i would alone. The upshod on two sides is that you need a moderation team. You can do that with or without me personally, but it seems like a waste to waste such a well educated and lucid volunteer. Aside from myself, the persons i know of on tribe i might nominate as others include lokifreign, wild apache, djarum, and, until recently, shatter, tho i may have been too kind in my estimation of him. Dimi comes to mind, patasapien, tho i doubt either of them would be interested. The people you want are the ones who previously walked the line. The people who managed to live as both sides of their nature in a prodictive over all manner. People who can hang with the trolls or with the TROLLs. And yet who can come to a conversation and be present and lucid and adult while still making their case and making an argument. The problem is if you get somebody whos like djarum used to be; idealist and shell shocked and demanding that the world be sterile to suit them. Thats too far the other direction. I'll continue to write this little missive and keep you updated for versions, since its becoming so relevant. :) In the meantime, again, I ask, how can tribe solve these problems sanely rather than trying to absolve itself of culpability and sweep things always under the carpet? I am offering solutions not merely accusations, i am offering evolution not as shatter accuses "spamming." So, please answer this thread with your own ideas about how to make tribe better, how to do moderation without doing fascism, and etc. thanks in advance, peace pan

prometheusPAN 2009-01-18T04:24:36Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#78fff9e5-1404-4935-9393-eccdee5fb795 2009-01-18T04:23:36Z 2009-01-18T04:23:36Z

The brilliance of having an IQ of 180 means that you should be able to understand the one line replies, too. ------------ you can have simplicity and complexity in harmony, and in fact, it usually works that way.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-18T04:23:36Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#f6875bc4-bd6f-4e47-8739-644a35b879e4 2009-01-18T04:22:06Z 2009-01-18T04:22:06Z

You might also consider brainstorm.tribe.net for any new ideas you'd like to discuss with other members as well. ----------- I have been there and done that. same problem there here and everywhere. Theres no cooperation; just people to tear you down; and not because you suck, but because they do and they can get away with it. To reparse this as a question, i'm here this tribe because i find the developments of late alarming, and the faq posted things inflamatory to that alarm. Should you desire to kill file it, you certainly have my permission to remove my half of the shatter conflict, if you do only that you will have a fine picture of what anybody who has an IQ over 140 faces trying to say anything in your somewehat barbaric civilization. Whats amusing on my side is your all making fine excuses for barbarity and one dimensional thinking. and...in many cases... demonstrating same.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-18T04:22:06Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#f2e9aa4f-4704-462a-a3fb-692ec53abc6c 2009-01-18T04:17:47Z 2009-01-18T04:17:47Z

The brilliance of having an IQ of 180 means that you should be able to understand the one line replies, too. ---------- lol. its not that problem, its the reverse problem. reality is more complicated than single sentences or single paragraphs. All you can say in such a short span is really nothing too definite, nothing too smart, and certainly nothing that advances the reader educationally really. Its important to parse things both ways. and all directions. for instance, when will the kill file be made available? i don't know, but i would guess that would happen if suddenly communication improved with the moderators. :)

prometheusPAN 2009-01-18T04:17:47Z candy cain http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#70c7205d-3164-4be9-85b0-41b6a8de190a 2009-01-18T03:09:45Z 2009-01-18T03:09:45Z

LOL TribeHelp snark

candy cain 2009-01-18T03:09:45Z Tribe.net Help http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#bd81d78e-3c7d-482e-b250-d3255a77e3b7 2009-01-18T03:05:13Z 2009-01-18T03:05:13Z

The brilliance of having an IQ of 180 means that you should be able to understand the one line replies, too. You might also consider brainstorm.tribe.net for any new ideas you'd like to discuss with other members as well.

Tribe.net Help 2009-01-18T03:05:13Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#0440989a-5a17-44a9-8118-e212eacfb919 2009-01-18T02:49:25Z 2009-01-18T02:49:25Z

what is that, an email address? how am i supposed to make sense of that or use it or parse it?

prometheusPAN 2009-01-18T02:49:25Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#5e7838ef-4a97-4a85-8d6d-3007893c407b 2009-01-18T02:46:17Z 2009-01-18T02:46:17Z

"thanks, just point me to where you'd like me." /me gives directions to Hell "where would you like that?" Follow previous directions until you reach your final destination. --S

Shatter 2009-01-18T02:46:17Z carolyn http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#99cb956b-8f6e-4fdb-b6ad-361a2547da5c 2009-01-18T02:45:23Z 2009-01-18T02:45:23Z

feedback@tribe.net

carolyn 2009-01-18T02:45:23Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#8bb3ca74-96f3-4aca-abc8-24e29d1243c1 2009-01-18T01:35:15Z 2009-01-18T01:35:15Z

A few of the comments represent careful thought and effort that would be more appropriately expended on other tribes. --------- thanks, just point me to where you'd like me. ------------- This tribe is intended to be discoverable by new users and users with genuine questions and the content here would not be helpful in integrating them into Tribe's community or in answering their questions. ------------- I'm trying to talk with YOU? where would you like that? :)

prometheusPAN 2009-01-18T01:35:15Z Tribe http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#2a5ee2eb-5b82-4563-8bc3-68c0bc332451 2009-01-17T22:28:22Z 2009-01-17T22:28:22Z

Please note: "This tribe is a community maintained FAQ. This an official tribe, moderated and monitored by Tribe.net employees. We kindly request that you not use this tribe for discussion." The personal content in this thread isn't appropriate to this forum. A few of the comments represent careful thought and effort that would be more appropriately expended on other tribes. This tribe is intended to be discoverable by new users and users with genuine questions and the content here would not be helpful in integrating them into Tribe's community or in answering their questions.

Tribe 2009-01-17T22:28:22Z Pimpy http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#81d07e52-a5df-4a44-8158-f5ee9b268ab4 2009-01-17T18:22:05Z 2009-01-17T18:22:05Z

It devolved a long time ago, so I was just going with it.

Pimpy 2009-01-17T18:22:05Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#eed82571-fea5-4855-b13f-11135544a812 2009-01-17T18:13:16Z 2009-01-17T18:13:16Z

Did...did this just devolve into an actual "no, YOU"RE a virgin" exchange? BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH! *sniff* I can't breathe that is so funny! Hurray for reasoned debate! Hooray for rules of discourse! Hurray for arguing with aspies over their messiah complexes! That is the best exposition of the primary reason no one should listen to this shit. Move ON peeps. Oh that's rich. I'ma die. Wow. Gratz y'all. I think we've officially outdone every previous immature and retarded thread this crew of whiners has ever done in the existence of tribe. Triple word score. Are we done yet, or is there more to go? If so, I might need a doctor, cuz my sides just cracked. Any more they will split. Really? I mean.....REALLY? ehaaaa. Thanks for a chuckle that will last allllll day.

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-17T18:13:16Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#bf66c360-1e4c-4d51-a519-fd68143d9d61 2009-01-17T18:06:38Z 2009-01-17T18:06:38Z

Sorry, but I hardly think five people represent the entirety of tribe. Just sayin'. Its what those tribers think. You overgeneralize way too much, and are trying to make tribe in to something you want, not what others want. Give it a break and use your own corner of tribe the way you want to. Stop trying to force it to become what it has never and will never be.

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-17T18:06:38Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#2bedae58-da78-41d9-bb71-e6c1241a8aa9 2009-01-17T01:17:01Z 2009-01-17T01:17:01Z

A proper person preaching change would rise above the petty snark and sarcasm. You have not. Thus, my accusation holds. --S

Shatter 2009-01-17T01:17:01Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#e8718fa1-7fa7-4b55-b9cd-9632e6f9373b 2009-01-17T01:15:15Z 2009-01-17T01:15:15Z

I'm not butthurt, that's all on you darling. --S

Shatter 2009-01-17T01:15:15Z Pimpy http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#ded46f16-fdb9-4367-ac72-ce9eaefbcdb9 2009-01-16T22:41:48Z 2009-01-16T22:41:48Z

I get plenty, douchebag of tribe.

Pimpy 2009-01-16T22:41:48Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#1b9add94-4324-4913-8256-93d9cb2874a0 2009-01-16T22:39:15Z 2009-01-16T22:39:15Z

pimpy, if it makes you happy to think so, by all means kock yourself out. the real truth is i learned a few things that give me an advantage, a serious advantage, and i have had a whole lot more fun that you probably have had, so your pissing up a projection of your own issues. Which is to say, i'm sorry you don't get enough sex pimpy, but its not really my problem.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-16T22:39:15Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#a7e1a378-514f-4c08-9fb7-098eebbd940c 2009-01-16T22:37:18Z 2009-01-16T22:37:18Z

http://faq.tribe.net/thread/d40bf2e2-69f5-43d8-bb5f-7f1fbc0afd8b lets hear it for the crab. this is what tribers really think, no matter what shatter or malv try to tells us.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-16T22:37:18Z Pimpy http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#8321073c-e6d8-459c-ab11-c025c036449e 2009-01-16T22:20:29Z 2009-01-16T22:20:29Z

Prom = virgin It's so obvious.

Pimpy 2009-01-16T22:20:29Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#51730374-9fa1-48df-9cc1-ceac81ee0ed1 2009-01-16T22:16:02Z 2009-01-16T22:16:02Z

"i bring real information to the table, i start with the information first, i always avoid insulting people, i try to be respectful, i am capable of real argument, i am an ethical person, i am a moral person, i work for the greater good, and i'm right instead of wrong. " No, you're a bullshit artist. Flim Flam Man Snake Oil Salesman Scam Artist Penecostal Preacher Amway Salesman ------------------ this is rich, i'm almost entertained. A stretched 6 in one cheap shot ad hominem classic. ---------- You preach one thing, and do another. Do as I say, not as I do. You don't lead by example as somebody who stands for change should do. You are like the person preach abstinence from the pulpit and getting caught with 5 hookers smoking crack. ------------- why, because i bust you down and kick your ass with flames when you troll me? I don't preach voluntary self sacrifice to evil bastards, i preach kick ass to those who deserve it. In this case you picked a fight and you are losing. And now you say you are leaving. Lets see if you just like to make cheap promises as cheap as your ad hominems. ----------- You will try to dismiss this as Ad Hominem however, in this case the accusations ARE appropriate. I'm not making fun of your mother. I'm talking about how your crusade about peoples behavior on tribe, how they should behave, and how they should conduct themself is total bullshit because you yourself can't follow your own rules. ----------- Why should i follow rules if you are going to assault me with abuse? if you are going to come at me shatter, i'm gonna kick your ass. Deal with it, pumkin, its the way its gonna work. ------------- You are not credible. You last and sort of credentials what so ever. You mouth is far removed from your cash. --------- lol. Sez the asshat troll who attacked me while i was trying to have a real conversation. ---------- If all of this is going over your head, I will lower my self down for a moment and simply say: You suck. ---------- no, its not going over my head, its going under my foot. don't let the door hit you in the but on the way out.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-16T22:16:02Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#839277ad-199a-44ee-9891-7e4dc5ead983 2009-01-16T22:10:31Z 2009-01-16T22:10:31Z

thats great shitter, brilliant. so are you filling out your form yet?

prometheusPAN 2009-01-16T22:10:31Z Pimpy http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#2d2d8d7d-5f2b-45d3-a7bc-ec13bbbc556e 2009-01-16T16:38:47Z 2009-01-16T16:38:47Z

That is teh awesome.

Pimpy 2009-01-16T16:38:47Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#ac098667-7520-42b2-a285-39d07c7e566a 2009-01-16T16:10:53Z 2009-01-16T16:10:53Z

Awesomesauce! *steals form*

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-16T16:10:53Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#517d4474-fafc-4194-8375-3682a2451e6b 2009-01-16T08:03:23Z 2009-01-16T08:03:23Z

Ya, I know. I also subscribe to Murphy's law in this matter and it's time that I make sure people can still tell teh difference. My point is made, my thesis is proven. The bullshit has been exposed for what it is. For my final Coup de Grace I submit this for Prometheus and leave it at that. This should take care of all his problems with people on the internet. http://faq.tribe.net/photos/eee116be-8d81-47d0-b130-d8707f81817e --S

Shatter 2009-01-16T08:03:23Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#dd9c8019-42c7-43f1-bec0-2164c8f7022c 2009-01-16T06:13:37Z 2009-01-16T06:13:37Z

Mental masturbation against an easy target. I should know, been there done that. Rise above, man. Spank it to someone who can engage, not just respond. Not volunteering, mind. Just saying fish in a barrel are already on special. Ammo, like talk, is cheap, so are thrills, I hear, but being a big spender is its own reward. Now that I've thoroughly mixed a few metaphors, I'm off to save the day, and a buck or two.

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-16T06:13:37Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#2e38c5f4-cb77-4d83-bd08-8b71eb0cada2 2009-01-15T22:08:31Z 2009-01-15T22:08:31Z

"i bring real information to the table, i start with the information first, i always avoid insulting people, i try to be respectful, i am capable of real argument, i am an ethical person, i am a moral person, i work for the greater good, and i'm right instead of wrong. " No, you're a bullshit artist. Flim Flam Man Snake Oil Salesman Scam Artist Penecostal Preacher Amway Salesman You preach one thing, and do another. Do as I say, not as I do. You don't lead by example as somebody who stands for change should do. You are like the person preach abstinence from the pulpit and getting caught with 5 hookers smoking crack. You will try to dismiss this as Ad Hominem however, in this case the accusations ARE appropriate. I'm not making fun of your mother. I'm talking about how your crusade about peoples behavior on tribe, how they should behave, and how they should conduct themself is total bullshit because you yourself can't follow your own rules. You are not credible. You last and sort of credentials what so ever. You mouth is far removed from your cash. If all of this is going over your head, I will lower my self down for a moment and simply say: You suck. --S

Shatter 2009-01-15T22:08:31Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#520159b8-ea42-4e47-8de4-0b2f7ada674b 2009-01-15T22:02:33Z 2009-01-15T22:02:33Z

Malvado: I'm using a very classic technique and feeding somebody back their own bullshit. This entire tribe of late has been one post after another of PeePee making accusation and condemnations against me for everything he's done. So, I'm just giving him a taste of his own bile since he likes it so much. In truth I haven't been abusive, perhaps a little abrasive, but he clearly devolved to petty baseless insults and has continued to do so. Then again, witty sarcasm is always wasted on the dimwitted. --S

Shatter 2009-01-15T22:02:33Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#d5d661a4-e3dc-436a-bc55-4ddaf967fbb9 2009-01-15T21:59:10Z 2009-01-15T21:59:10Z

No plokk, that was to your knight in spamming armor. The "shaddap plokk" was snarky humor. Nothing more. I never try to silence anyone, but I will point out when they are utterly stupid. I can't say the same for you though. --S

Shatter 2009-01-15T21:59:10Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#a150ee0e-dea5-4b37-8a51-b605b5a62433 2009-01-15T19:59:10Z 2009-01-15T19:59:10Z

It is up to the moderators to impose a word count limit on Prom. ------------- wouldn't you like that. But of course a TROLL peanut gallery is a predictable side effect of working on this problem and, you and i have been here before. -------------- I did an electronic word count on the fellow recently and found his post clocked in at around 8,000 words. ----------- i did a guesstimate count on you, and its always under like 50 or 100. On my planet that means you aren't considered even sentient. complicated thinking is considered to start at around 10 thousand symbols. I actually parse way down for you pathetic muggles, you have no idea how well i cut the balance, your an ignorant tard with a cheap shot to take. ----------- We now limit him to twitter size posts. Anything over is deleted. --------- You have no power. i can play the inverse game. Delete all ad hominems, delete all straw man arguments, delete all incidental chatter, delete evasions, delete double bind set ups, and whats left of you? nothing but a ling list of moderator actions. ------------

prometheusPAN 2009-01-15T19:59:10Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#b240b3c0-86b9-49fa-99ce-e883bad6da3c 2009-01-15T19:54:46Z 2009-01-15T19:54:46Z

"Cause you are an abusive person that goes around insulting people who express their opinion. " And this differs from your own behavior how exactly? heheh. ------------ i bring real information to the table, i start with the information first, i always avoid insulting people, i try to be respectful, i am capable of real argument, i am an ethical person, i am a moral person, i work for the greater good, and i'm right instead of wrong.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-15T19:54:46Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#611e8c14-67de-46b8-ace6-99842e2d3bca 2009-01-15T19:30:08Z 2009-01-15T19:30:08Z

It is up to the moderators to impose a word count limit on Prom. I did an electronic word count on the fellow recently and found his post clocked in at around 8,000 words. We now limit him to twitter size posts. Anything over is deleted.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-15T19:30:08Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#f3a9191e-eaba-4d0b-b368-a2e7c00dbb6b 2009-01-15T19:08:56Z 2009-01-15T19:08:56Z

"Cause you are an abusive person that goes around insulting people who express their opinion. " And this differs from your own behavior how exactly? heheh.

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-15T19:08:56Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#451f6836-e769-4bfe-8ac6-60d2d9940052 2009-01-15T17:59:32Z 2009-01-15T17:59:32Z

The prometheuspan plan for solving the current troll/alpha dog dominion violence headtrip that is the cancer that keeps civilization stupid. 1. These principles must be utterly pragmatic to employ as rules in a forum, and yet be long term social engineering principles which look at the long term and gently shape it. 2. These principles must apply in each case the core principle of the balance between severity and mercy. Without enough of both yin or yang, the universe or any system which is a microfractal impression of the core scalar fractal holomorph will fall out of balance. A. This includes al kinds of systems, for instance weather which needs a day and night cycle, or social systems which require a certain amount of rules to enforce civility yet not enough rules to take away anybodies liberties. A large amount of rhetoric of the far right is based on a panic driven duality schema where they say if things go off in the direction of more rules or to many rules civilization will crumble. the interesting thing is that the balance point they are pointing at is real. But the current balance is skewed so far off balance to the right that the roof has now become a leg which lands over in insane retardsville. 3. The core problem of ignorance as it plays out in pack psychology; people fighting over things they know nothing about. B. Thus the core cure of education. Not unsubbing, public humiliation, or other forms of negative re-enforcement. You must employ pavlovs core gift to humanity in order to fix this problem. C. that core gift is this; No amount of merely negative re-enforcement ever makes any situation better, it just makes the criminals better or slyer or more twisted. You can't beat a dog into submission for long, eventually if you don't also love it its going to decide to finish the nightmare alpha monster as best as it can. D. Thus the true core of severity is its balance counterpoint in this and most instances; the system is only as good as the judgements made in bringing things up... you could call it the parental love side of the force. On the other hand on te severity or discipline side of the force you have what we might have to call parental discipline. The real truth about applying parental discipline with a child or an adult human whos behaving as one is that the truth is you can only claim moral authority with a person by demonstrating to them that you are doing your best to treat them and their situation fairly. E. Thus 'Discipline" in any successful adventure, even with a child is a love driven account system with very occasional negative energy withdrawals of large sums. IE, the parent gives to the child positive energy, and more positive energy; the child behaves badly, the adult gives a very short burst of negative energy which drains the emotional bonding account between parent and child. A parent must see that account in the childs mind and make sense of it and love a child in a manner that brings them up and opens doors for them to grow into places instead of boxing them in to keep them safe from themselves. F.The discipline side of a public forum is then the civility created by a successful moderation team who firstly acts to educate and empower its user base, as well as lead some discussion forums, but who then incidentally deals with the same crowd or mob to settle or resolve disputes as opportunities for educational demonstrative process. 4. Every person carries with them a shadow or subconscious elements of self which are for most people entirely subliminal. In public forums common parlance, we can call that aspect of self the inner troll. Everyone has an inner troll, and the curious thing about having an inner troll is its another part of you you have to take care of. A. Theres nothing wrong with sparring where both participants have agreed thats what they want to do. B. It is however assault to soft spar somebody who has not agreed to the new social conditions of soft sparring. C. Similarly, verbal or written communication can be used for psychological warfare. And thats an entire trip stretch. Its a place a lot of people get trapped inside of and they never learn to put down their pitchforks. D. Thanks to those people human civilization is incidentally still a big phat verbal abuse pitchfork society. Which is barbaric, primitive, stupid, self defeating, self dating, and ultimately which brings evolution to a grinding halt around the situation of breeding people stupid so that they will vote republican. And then make good propaganda war foot soldiers in their orwellian society... all the while pretending that any attempt to improve things is some form of socialist fascism. E. Given how pack psychology, the dominant social and political and religious paradigms, and egotism as well as what happens given that reality is based on fractal scalar mirroring, thus; F. the relationship any person has with society as a whole is some vague mirror of the relationship they have with themselves and vice versa; G. the relationship any person has with themselves is the relationship most people project at others socially. H. A person who does this is trapped in the matrix, and curiously you can demonstrate their trappedness very easily using formal conversational logic if you know what you are doing. 5. Conversational logic is the true golden science which fixes this if we pay attention. The science has ruled on this, but society hasn't caught up. a. Ad hominems. An ad hominem is a personal attack. In truth there are different version of what an ad hominem is depending on how formal the conversation is. In some debate situations, an ad hominem is defined as ANY USE OF ANY REFERENCE AT ALL TO THE COMMUNICATEE IN THE BODY OF THE MESSAGE>... You are allowed to greet and you are allowed to say goodbye, but in the strictest sense, the moment a person starts talking about the other person rather than the persons stated ideas they have drifted from focus on what is relevant. In more common parlance, or in legal language, for instance, an ad hominem is committed any time a person specifically attacks another person. In either case, an ad hominem is wrong because it makes the talker the subject and thus changes the subject. b. straw man arguments. When somebody misrepresents what you said and distorts it, or creates an entirely new argument and claims that its yours, and then knocks that down instead of your argument, thats a straw man argument. C. Double bind. The best example i am in often is the jerk who insults me ten times for being an idiot according to them and then holds it against me later for "bragging" that my IQ is 180. Well, my IQ is 180, and they are the ones who brought up the subject of my intelligence. Or the people whos argument is that you spammed them. Right so your argument is "i can't handle this its too big and i don't have enough attention span to look at it so you are bad for even bringing it up" kinds of trippers. Your then damned if you do bother to present the information they obviously don't have and damned if you don't by such logic. d. There are these things in language called propositiions, syllogisms, and arguments. Learn what they are and how they stack into each other. e. Then there is the definition, in conversational logic, of validity, cogency, and TRUTH VALUE. f. While the current trend is of course anarchy and anarchism with trolls laying claim to waste any ideas to do anything smarter, the first site on the net which actually employs formal logic to drive both moderation and administration (leading conversations and tossing TROLLS off by confiscating their accounts.) will evolve rapidly into a viral phenomenon. This will make such a site extremely popular once it takes off, and will then spawn a new set of competition variables as other places try to implement and create similar social situations. g. The main reason for this is that formal logic organizes the grand conversation into something auto self searched. With one good moderator leading a conversation with their head also in a textbook, that moderator can lead a conversation which is incredibly smart, informative, interesting, and orders of magnitude better than what wikipedia can now do because it too is based still on pack psychology. h. The second reason for this is that formal logic directly weeds out social parasites so effectively and so quickly that the social energies now being employed to keep the population ignorant would be blown off and the natural evolutionary sequence which has been being held back by an enormous artificial earth dam can burst through all that and claim everything waiting for us at the next intellectual evolutionary level. i. Conversational logic is thus the "Severity" side of our model. It turns you into a coldly rational and calculating individual with no biases and a clear and lucid understanding of the difference between what you really do know and what you probably don't. 6. Non Violent communication or NVC is a relationship and communications meta model which converts positive energy relating into a very simple ritualized form of conversation. 7. Maslow and Pavlov fill out the rest of the side of mercy. 8. My suggestion to tribe then is this; 1. Run a user based back ground check on the hard core users who are interested in it, and then pick 3 user liasons per each paid staff member. 2. These volunteers will act as secretaries and as a sort of interface with tribers. 3. The new moderators will not have unsub powers for tribe as a whole but should have limited global moderation powers to do things like move posts. (deletion is always problematic as then its missing. Organizing it is better. Similarly, don't unsub an account, get into it as an admin and change the password. Think how much easier that would now make the task of giving me back my old account. (prometheuspan@hotmail.com. I was unsubbed for reporting a stalker.I wasn't asking for her removal i was asking for a moderator to talk some sense into her.And then later warning people in tribes about her once i saw her in action abusing others. She got like a dozen people unsubbed before the staff unsubbed her apparently realizing who was the real culprit.) 4. The new moderators will HOST tribe. that means that they will chat with tribers in a few limited tribes, lead conversations in those tribes, and occasionally come into situations as a third element in a dispute larger than a single tribe. 5. Preferably if its done right using 100 instances of that(dealing with inter/multi tribe disputes.) to teach the mob how not to do it and then not having to deal with it much after that. 6. Have your moderation team open not just the five or ten tribe tribes that now exist but a whole new batch of main tribe tribes which tribe can now feature, where the moderators lead conversations smart and ultra civil as demonstrations of how it can be done that way. The list of topics is as easy as obamas platform planks plus 50 sciences. With a tribe on astronomy thats got good moderation, you should have a virtual open ended textbook on astronomy that beats google searches for depth, quality and ease of access as well as information density. IE; show tribers how smart management of a tribe can turn a tribe into something truly useful, educational, ultra civil, and etc. 7. Don't require all tribes to be like that. 8. Each tribe has its own sort of charter for social protocols and thats as it should be. Global moderators should take this into account. A troll who starts a troll tribe to play innocently with their inner and other peoples trolls can be left alone to bicker and ad hominem and straw man away to his hearts content; thats that tribes version of social order and it has its own logic and rules which should be respected. 9. By one definition then a TROLL is somebody who tries to change the social order always back to pack psychology and bully tactics; a verbal bully. a. all bullies by definition are actually weak minded vampires. b. so if you help their minds get stronger, they can fix, or... c. If you help them put together a psychology kit thats self sufficient, they can quit being vampires. d. The real key to problem solving process with TROLLS is to see them as victims of bad ideas. good moderation is not about punishing somebody, its about educating them and empowering them to have a better tactic. Its not about caging people, but about liberating them. 10. The troll complaint against rules is that such interfere with personal liberty. What is never discussed and never pointed out is that a sociey run by pack psychology and bullies isn't a liberated society either. A bullies idea is that its his personal liberty to boss people around, harass them, stalk them, belittle, slander, attack, etc. That idea is a wrong idea, ethically, socially, and by now, perhaps most important evolutionarilly. The real truth abut cages and liberty in social systems is that we now exist in a civilization of wage slavery as a cage and troll propaganda warfare for our intellectual public discourse. Its pathetic.Its a cage, and the way out of it is to realize that good rules don't hinder personal liberty, they are the ballwarks and the foundations upon which a society gains enough energy for us to have personal liberties.You can't be liberated or free in a society which sees you as a labor commodity or which treats you like meat. You can't be liberated or free in a tribe where TROLLZ shoot down all of the better thinking by attacking the geeks so that they can be the alphas. Good social rules are the wings a social system uses to fly. Without them, any social system is going to be grounded in the banal, and confined to the lowest common denominators in terms of IQ and attention span. So the real truth is that the trolls are the ones selling mental cages and i am the one whos offering true liberty. 11. To implement a successful moderation system requires close attention to the above principle. Moderation is not about controlling people, its about giving them the wings to let them fly. The trolls are projecting their trip about their own mental cages, which has nothing to do with reality as it is. THEIR rules are the mental cage. True liberty is when a group of 30 people fall into phase and become a super genius think tank off exploring some interesting aspect of reality. True liberty is when your ten hobby groups totally rock and your life is awesome because you have such great support for your hobby group. 12. So, you have your moderation team running these tribes aimed for peak performance in demonstration of what a tribe can do; the very top of what can be done with a tribe. And those demonstrations then help people to learn and to see what to do and how to work making their own tribes better. And if you are smart, eventually what happens is the moderation styles somewhat catch on, and then tribe becomes a place with lots of "troll" hang outs but without an over-all TROLL dominance of the site. 13. This is of course just a bullet point brief, I can detail it but i think it might be better to work democratically towards detailing better than i would alone. The upshod on two sides is that you need a moderation team. You can do that with or without me personally, but it seems like a waste to waste such a well educated and lucid volunteer. Aside from myself, the persons i know of on tribe i might nominate as others include lokifreign, wild apache, djarum, and, until recently, shatter, tho i may have been too kind in my estimation of him. Dimi comes to mind, patasapien, tho i doubt either of them would be interested. The people you want are the ones who previously walked the line. The people who managed to live as both sides of their nature in a prodictive over all manner. People who can hang with the trolls or with the TROLLs. And yet who can come to a conversation and be present and lucid and adult while still making their case and making an argument. The problem is if you get somebody whos like djarum used to be; idealist and shell shocked and demanding that the world be sterile to suit them. Thats too far the other direction. I'll continue to write this little missive and keep you updated for versions, since its becoming so relevant. :) In the meantime, again, I ask, how can tribe solve these problems sanely rather than trying to absolve itself of culpability and sweep things always under the carpet? I am offering solutions not merely accusations, i am offering evolution not as shatter accuses "spamming." So, please answer this thread with your own ideas about how to make tribe better, how to do moderation without doing fascism, and etc. thanks in advance, peace pan

prometheusPAN 2009-01-15T17:59:32Z Plokk D Rainbo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#df0fd4e7-e080-4212-ac12-c7d3d7d78c1c 2009-01-15T17:42:47Z 2009-01-15T17:42:47Z

why would you tell me to shut up then.. if you take me to court and sue me you wont get much I haven' done anything except to ask you to just let him say his piece to tribe.. this is a tribe related tribe.. had you not started attacking Promethius he would be done now, and yes you have everything he said you had some smart ass I'm smarter than you are diatribe. when in fact this tribe is FAQ which means this is their answer and they are not discussing it. DId you notice they are not getting into these conversations.. thats because they already decided this is the way it is... you can lay out what you would like to see changed.. they may or may not take your advice. But this whole thread is Off Topic to this tribe. Just leave people that bother you alone.. and you do seem to have a problem with Promethius.

Plokk D Rainbo 2009-01-15T17:42:47Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#9f1a9e30-a70c-4204-92d2-57b3d63a526c 2009-01-15T15:01:08Z 2009-01-15T15:01:08Z

No, I'll take you to tribe court and sue you for a paid account. Plus putative damages. and pain and suffering. Cause you are an abusive person that goes around insulting people who express their opinion. --S

Shatter 2009-01-15T15:01:08Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#05744d89-36b0-4675-b6c7-a38078b9f3cb 2009-01-15T07:10:30Z 2009-01-15T07:10:30Z

Shaddup Plokk ----------- or what? you'll do another round of juicing up your ass full of bile and projectile spewing an enema? beat us up? fling more stupid insults until i go home crying to mommy? you have no power shatter. and your credibility is nil.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-15T07:10:30Z Plokk D Rainbo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#c34fd9b2-ba45-434b-b21d-814adad0aea7 2009-01-15T05:45:55Z 2009-01-15T05:45:55Z

blow yourself shatter

Plokk D Rainbo 2009-01-15T05:45:55Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#e0ba9636-62b8-46ff-a148-fa90a2ecc7b0 2009-01-15T03:02:46Z 2009-01-15T03:02:46Z

Shaddup Plokk --S

Shatter 2009-01-15T03:02:46Z Plokk D Rainbo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#f4d1eca4-dfc7-419a-98b2-247932e72691 2009-01-15T02:46:18Z 2009-01-15T02:45:41Z

Hey you guys followed him over here.. for what? He has a right to his opinions and he has a right to dispute with tribe this is a Tribe tribe and if anyone should get booted its you guys for baiting him.. or are all three of you the same person.. who the hell knows but he has a right to post to your responses if you reply just as much as you.. or sunshine or anyone else here... Get off your high horses and let the man/ woman have their say.. you guys tried to quash Sunshine in the brainstorm tribe.. why? who the fuck are you to try and shut anyone up .. you have the biggest opinions on every topic that comes up... I call bull shit and ask you to leave em alone..

Plokk D Rainbo 2009-01-15T02:45:41Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#6f40f0ad-8144-4b1f-8662-a7450749cc2a 2009-01-14T19:40:26Z 2009-01-14T19:40:26Z

Hehe, right after yours, bud. Right after yours. There's a line you know...

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-14T19:40:26Z B http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#7d45e063-9026-410a-a3ed-d46f8ee0c4b1 2009-01-14T19:23:45Z 2009-01-14T19:23:45Z

Pimpy - I skip over most of it This tribe is supposed to be a tribe faq tribe, here to help members. I would hate to see this ongoing blah blah blah run people off who need real information from it.

B 2009-01-14T19:23:45Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#b5bb3913-da6b-4e3c-b7a7-5c939a70e646 2009-01-14T18:43:19Z 2009-01-14T18:43:19Z

See? And you guys think I'm annoying. At least my content is original and written fresh on the fly! Only copy/paste from me is quotes. --S

Shatter 2009-01-14T18:43:19Z Pimpy http://faq.tribe.net/thread/6e9eb29f-046d-4772-be46-be7cd5426940#2ff650e4-2003-46bc-a26a-9668015f6566 2009-01-14T17:28:35Z 2009-01-14T17:28:35Z

I thought Sunshine was annoying, but this guy is the king. Please, for the love of Jeebus, make it stop!

Pimpy 2009-01-14T17:28:35Z