Tribe.net. Local Connections prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#ac66445b-577a-4e22-8696-0f8f5c72f3c0 2009-01-27T23:02:44Z 2009-01-27T23:02:44Z

http://tribes.tribe.net/conflictresolution/thread/5404e1b1-50db-464e-acfe-2bc623bab207?newpostingid=699ba296-07aa-44df-b63c-8db5f1cef184#699ba296-07aa-44df-b63c-8db5f1cef184

prometheusPAN 2009-01-27T23:02:44Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#9ba1c7a4-fcc5-4075-ba75-e7f9c159adb3 2009-01-27T03:10:47Z 2009-01-27T03:10:47Z

djarum, the post at the top of this particular thread is a fine example of staff more or less dropping down below the lowest common denominator. its not a FAQ question, its message control.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-27T03:10:47Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#568d6f78-42d5-43e8-b762-6fe61c7adcaa 2009-01-27T01:57:11Z 2009-01-27T01:57:11Z

Yes, it is an FAQ tribe, it does have value. The tribe.net officials post something up top. Most of whatever is added to it by members is crap, including my own posts. BUT, it is useful for new members to learn who to avoid talking to, like all of us who reply here. ;)

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-27T01:57:11Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#be0d0bc0-0d81-430d-9310-48075c1726b0 2009-01-27T01:27:54Z 2009-01-27T01:27:54Z

rom, you know he's projecting. People fling out what they know best, and it's whatever they are inside. Things like: 1. The internet, and tribe.net in particular, is a boon to the mentally ill and the socially retarded... 2. It is the one place where they stand on equal footing with others. 3. It is the one place they can be whoever it is they imagine themselves to be. For #3, you don't run endless alts. But he used to. He had a creative talent for it too. One that could make for great novels, if he could connect the characters into an interesting story line. ---------- all that wasted creative energy. somebody get satan an agent. ----------- I don't have that skill. I don't have that kind of mind. You are always yourself, and whether that is good or bad depends on if the subject is interesting to the reader and if the reader has the time to learn your communication style. Even with those LONG posts, you leave out a lot of information. ------------ its impossible really to fill it all in. I actually do a lot of self censorship for only the most salient points, i can see how people would miss that... ---------- For #2, that's something he uses in a different way, in that he seems to like to be "the big man" and seems to try too hard. I think it's compensatory for whatever goes on in his real life. ---------- Yes, obviously. In fact the standard combat psyche model tells us that satan is a 40 year old virgin with serious maladaptive social problems that would make it impossible for him to have a relationship. You can figure that from his projections. -------- So here he gets to be not just on equal footing, but gets to push people around. For YOU, you tend to want to TEACH everyone something, whether they want to learn it or not. You BOTH want to be heard. If you both aren't heard, his posts get more insulting and yours get longer and longer. LOL! ----------- true 'dat. ----------- For #1, tribe.net IS a good place for support groups. It CAN be used for people who suffer depression or are bi-polar, and it CAN be used to work on developing friendships, if only online ones. Some of us don't have the same options that other people do. People who are isolated via distance or disability can always come here. People who move around, or have to travel for work, or have odd hours for their work, it's difficult to form friendships, so yeah, people do come here. As he does. And you both seek an audience for your speech. He wants to provide entertainment and be applauded. You want to teach and to have people learn. When those needs aren't met, crankiness occurs. -------------- thats oversimplifying, but its mostly true if we add some complexity to the generalizations... ---------- And, Prom, if you plan on replying to this post, do not copy and paste anything from it in your reply or elsewhere. You do not need to address each point. ------------ but i like to do that, and as an aside, it wouldn't be bad if others did that 2. ----------- People here sometimes just want to chat. They don't necessarily want that moment to be a learning experience. ---------- i understand that, but when the boats slowly sinking its a good time to learn to swim, or, to learn boat repair. I'm not asking people to learn droves and piles of information, just enough to address the problems tribe has (and quit being asshats, in some cases.) Thats more than fair, in the same way that requiring somebody to learn to drive before they get on the road is fair. ---------- And they may not want it to be filled with alt entertainment either. They may just want to go to tribe, chat with a few real people about whatever is on their minds, and that's it. OK? ----------- sounds great. so, here we are at FAQ. Its a room intended by design and stated purpose to serve to answer questions users often ask. instead, its a trollhatten enema festival with TRIBE playing the role of rubber hose. I mean, its clear that the tribe is no longer useful for its stated purpose and clear that even TRIBE long since gave up trying to actually answer real FAQs and now is mostly resigned to finding creative ways to tell everybody that if they are harassed or stalked or etc, Tribe won't act. Thats the wrong answer, its wrong ethically, its wrong morally, its wrong legally, its wrong in systems theory, wrong in psychology, wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. If it requires me to educate people to make that point, then i will do that, but ultimately i shouldn't have to do that and thus the blame falls on tribe. They should be educating themselves and their users, not working at every turn to deny culpability and empower the trolls. This entire conversation to start is a farce. Its not a FAQ question, its a blow off like so many other blow offs, and the reason why people keep on this issue with tribe is that tribes so called answer is crap. its the wrong answer.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-27T01:27:54Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#f433b28a-b4aa-4304-89d6-5fad2d38b80e 2009-01-27T01:02:14Z 2009-01-27T01:02:14Z

Prom, you know he's projecting. People fling out what they know best, and it's whatever they are inside. Things like: 1. The internet, and tribe.net in particular, is a boon to the mentally ill and the socially retarded... 2. It is the one place where they stand on equal footing with others. 3. It is the one place they can be whoever it is they imagine themselves to be. For #3, you don't run endless alts. But he used to. He had a creative talent for it too. One that could make for great novels, if he could connect the characters into an interesting story line. I don't have that skill. I don't have that kind of mind. You are always yourself, and whether that is good or bad depends on if the subject is interesting to the reader and if the reader has the time to learn your communication style. Even with those LONG posts, you leave out a lot of information. The copy and paste from various places without links back to those places, and things are jumbled out of context. For #2, that's something he uses in a different way, in that he seems to like to be "the big man" and seems to try too hard. I think it's compensatory for whatever goes on in his real life. So here he gets to be not just on equal footing, but gets to push people around. For YOU, you tend to want to TEACH everyone something, whether they want to learn it or not. You BOTH want to be heard. If you both aren't heard, his posts get more insulting and yours get longer and longer. LOL! For #1, tribe.net IS a good place for support groups. It CAN be used for people who suffer depression or are bi-polar, and it CAN be used to work on developing friendships, if only online ones. Some of us don't have the same options that other people do. People who are isolated via distance or disability can always come here. People who move around, or have to travel for work, or have odd hours for their work, it's difficult to form friendships, so yeah, people do come here. As he does. And you both seek an audience for your speech. He wants to provide entertainment and be applauded. You want to teach and to have people learn. When those needs aren't met, crankiness occurs. And, Prom, if you plan on replying to this post, do not copy and paste anything from it in your reply or elsewhere. You do not need to address each point. I'm just writing, it's not a quiz, it doesn't require logical analysis. I'm going to add on one of my infamous analogies now. Sometimes people want to learn, and sometimes people just want to be. I went to the grocery store earlier, in my new car. I had some things to get. I did NOT want to hear sounds from under the hood before starting the car, investigate the sounds, and have a mechanic pop out of the engine compartment to drag me around said compartment telling me which parts were what and what they do and what tools I needed to remove or replace and how to test some other parts. I just wanted to go the store. Yes, car mechanics (that is, the mechanics of how the vehicle operates, not the people that work on them) ARE interesting. No, I don't know that much about them. But all I wanted to do at that moment was go to the store. People here sometimes just want to chat. They don't necessarily want that moment to be a learning experience. And they may not want it to be filled with alt entertainment either. They may just want to go to tribe, chat with a few real people about whatever is on their minds, and that's it. OK?

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-27T01:02:14Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#9e308e5c-a9bd-4e6f-8910-75235e01a481 2009-01-26T20:33:48Z 2009-01-26T20:33:48Z

This is hilarious. Prom the Unabomber's posts are usually 8,000 or more words, consisting of delusional lectures on spaceship designs, his imagined genetic and sexual superiority, his imagined high IQ, and his diatribes against all of society. ------------ i'm glad your giggling satan, i wouldn't want it any other way. as a side note, i don't post 8000 word bits on space ship designs, i keep that to myself as i know humanz can't relate. I also don't post 8000 bit things on my genetic or sexual superiority, i just answer asshat assclowns who make attacks with one liners you then like to try to exploit. lastly, i don't post diatribes against society, i post diatribes FOR society, AGAINST PEOPLE LIKE YOU. ------------ In light of this, the suggestion that this social retard gets any tail at all is improbable and laughable. ---------- The suggestion i don't is even more laughable, given that i'm highly functional and you can't even manage a healthy relationship with your SELF. ------------ Sex life? They let inmates at the county health facility have sexual relations, do they? ------------- thats funny mostly since such inmates don't have dailly access to computers. its a limp writed ad hominem, i think we can thus conclude your gay. ------------- The internet, and tribe.net in particular, is a boon to the mentally ill and the socially retarded. ---------- You should know, otherwise you'd have no social life at all. --------- It is the one place where they stand on equal footing with others. ---------- No, they still have their disadvantages just as they would in person. -------------- It is the one place they can be whoever it is they imagine themselves to be. ------------ Again, you can pretend all you like but nobody else is likely to join your fantasy. ---------- So go on and tell us more about the space ship you are designing that will be crewed by your harem of nubiles as you leave the planet to repopulate the universe with Prom's superior seed. Ha ha ha. ----------- No, theres no harem, and as an aside, due to the simple fact that i have thousands of minor genetic mutations (all of which seem to make no difference or imbue slight advantages... but still) my genetic material is to unstable and i have no plans to procreate. so again all we have is distortion, lies, spin, and bullshit, from a fucktard walking time bomb who could get sued or get tribe sued the very moment anybody decided to bother. ---------- I find crazy people to be fascinating, as long as I don't have to smell them.... ----------- yeah, you stink.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-26T20:33:48Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#04e61f12-21a3-4744-a260-4c6af2754003 2009-01-26T20:06:08Z 2009-01-26T20:06:08Z

"They let inmates at the county health facility have sexual relations, do they? " After they're been sterilized, sure. --S

Shatter 2009-01-26T20:06:08Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#4419f034-0b14-4dc7-a29b-5232248ebaf8 2009-01-26T13:42:15Z 2009-01-26T13:42:15Z

Prom was asked: Are you still a virgin? --------- He answered: Not at all, in fact satans big final bust of an argument against me was that my sex life was more interesting than his. so, lets talk about what your mental health issues are that you go around asking such personal questions, eh? ************ This is hilarious. Prom the Unabomber's posts are usually 8,000 or more words, consisting of delusional lectures on spaceship designs, his imagined genetic and sexual superiority, his imagined high IQ, and his diatribes against all of society. In light of this, the suggestion that this social retard gets any tail at all is improbable and laughable. Sex life? They let inmates at the county health facility have sexual relations, do they? A ha ha ha. The internet, and tribe.net in particular, is a boon to the mentally ill and the socially retarded. It is the one place where they stand on equal footing with others. It is the one place they can be whoever it is they imagine themselves to be. So go on and tell us more about the space ship you are designing that will be crewed by your harem of nubiles as you leave the planet to repopulate the universe with Prom's superior seed. Ha ha ha. I find crazy people to be fascinating, as long as I don't have to smell them....

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-26T13:42:15Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#2b119aaa-8461-4498-bcd2-7c4680fd3bae 2009-01-22T22:01:34Z 2009-01-22T22:01:34Z

@djaraum I applaud you for not reposting it then. Lord knows we have enough copy/pasting around these parts. --S

Shatter 2009-01-22T22:01:34Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#38d709fb-b1a8-4b0a-9d6f-2a1b94891e0c 2009-01-22T18:55:08Z 2009-01-22T18:55:08Z

I've posted that before. Last time it got a laugh.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-22T18:55:08Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#9981db16-09d7-494c-bd50-ad442c71ae35 2009-01-22T17:28:42Z 2009-01-22T17:28:42Z

@BLUE (yes, when you are being all butthurt you are BLUE, when you are being Jane reg user I'll call you by whatever screen name you're using) What in the hell are you all butthurt about now? Something happen this year? --S

Shatter 2009-01-22T17:28:42Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#c8cfd367-ba50-4d9a-8e5f-fc8ce63460fa 2009-01-22T08:25:35Z 2009-01-22T08:25:35Z

All they need do is reword the text that accompanies any photo upload. This is what is currently seen: Note: Tribe is a respectful and considerate community. You may not upload photos that portray pornography, obscenity, or sexually explicit conduct, symbolize hatred, or that violate a copyright. See the Terms of Use and Code of Conduct to review all restrictions. --- This is reality: Note: Tribe is a disrespectful and inconsiderate community. You must only upload photos (or make posts) that portray pornography, obscenity, or sexually explicit conduct, symbolize hatred, and/or violate a copyright. There are no restrictions. --- While they won't kick anyone off for being nice or friendly, that person will be looked down upon and laughed at by the trolls. In fact, you can almost figure out who the really nice, genuine, honest people are, by how much they are attacked.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-22T08:25:35Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#9c6cfea2-38a0-44a1-a52c-9dcfb08eaf24 2009-01-22T05:34:10Z 2009-01-22T05:34:10Z

Agreed. An update is in order.

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-22T05:34:10Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#bb4ccab9-553e-4f6d-bc85-ec5e38720815 2009-01-21T21:10:56Z 2009-01-21T21:10:56Z

@timbo That's the absolutely best suggestion posted on this tribe in the past month. --S

Shatter 2009-01-21T21:10:56Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#421639ec-1477-46ed-acc1-fbe20820c80f 2009-01-21T20:23:08Z 2009-01-21T20:23:08Z

some integration of these assorted ideas would be obviously a great idea, and the point i would make to tribe is that its not a great idea to offer these things stand alone because they appear without caveats or explanations and also seem to directly contradict other tribe statements. I would point out i guess to timbomov then that what you are actually witnessing here is in some ways not a faq at all, its a stress venting and exasperation confession and a veiled cry for help. The many victims of the many stalkers are stalking tribe and harassing them. What an tribe do about it? nothing they don't have the person power or enough lucid solutions to the problems. Its always interesting to remember that most things people say which are over the top are projections. and interesting to realize that as tribe stalkees are to tribe stalkers, so are tribe staff to tribes stalkees... Following them everywhere, demanding their time and attention, creating petty dramas, ....

prometheusPAN 2009-01-21T20:23:08Z Timbozo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#e046d597-88b3-4e7a-8b6f-662c613de818 2009-01-21T20:05:25Z 2009-01-21T20:05:25Z

Are you enforcing the TOU and Code of Conduct that are currently posted on tribe.net? If not, these should be modified or removed to reflect the current situation...otherwise, you're just making a crazy situation worse...and also perhaps opening tribe up to civil suits for saying one thing on the website when someone creates a membership profile and then saying another in forums like this one.

Timbozo 2009-01-21T20:05:25Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#8de69054-d981-4217-a9ca-84fb79da0d5b 2009-01-18T02:15:35Z 2009-01-18T02:15:35Z

He's just further proving he's got absolutely zero clue about the subject matter. --S

Shatter 2009-01-18T02:15:35Z Pimpy http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#9cd998cd-8e6c-4fa7-8a19-06f5060c9dbf 2009-01-18T02:10:10Z 2009-01-18T02:10:10Z

You'd think someone with a 180 IQ would know the difference between "your" and "you're".

Pimpy 2009-01-18T02:10:10Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#485d3316-1e6a-46ae-8257-0f385bc90f0a 2009-01-18T01:48:33Z 2009-01-18T01:48:33Z

Apples and Oranges gay ------------- shitter, your just squirting disgusting stuff out your ass. please stop emberassing yourself and everyone else. if you must attack me, at least have the grace to try something more than sheer drivel. This is a geek your talking to and you seem to think it works to go troll. Just because i can speak troll with you doesn't mean i'm obliged to if you cant even be bothered to pull out anything thats not canned. Nobodies impressed by this crap, and all you are doing over the long run is an impressive job of proving my point that your an abusive asshat and that tribe has a serious problem with an overabundance of clusterfucks like you.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-18T01:48:33Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#7c611d28-d2ee-4f01-ab7a-b50087b852b7 2009-01-17T01:21:16Z 2009-01-17T01:21:16Z

"thats fine, but i'm creative, poetic, senstive, do massage, understand womens issues, understand body language and personal space psychology, sing expertly in a five octave voice, play the flute, play clarinet, read tarot, and have countless hobbies which enables me to meet and attract all kinds of geeky girls. " So you're gay. --S

Shatter 2009-01-17T01:21:16Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#e01303dc-971a-4494-9311-a0e481ad39d5 2009-01-17T01:19:21Z 2009-01-17T01:19:21Z

So you equating your bullet outline with a mathematical thesis about the relationship between energy and matter? Perhaps you've forgotten one of the math fundamentals referred to as "Apples and Oranges" --S

Shatter 2009-01-17T01:19:21Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#6ffa0853-941c-4879-8b44-3d78268f0d56 2009-01-16T22:42:37Z 2009-01-16T22:42:37Z

I don't see how anyone could stand talking to you, much less being in the same room with you. Chode ---------- thats fine, but i'm creative, poetic, senstive, do massage, understand womens issues, understand body language and personal space psychology, sing expertly in a five octave voice, play the flute, play clarinet, read tarot, and have countless hobbies which enables me to meet and attract all kinds of geeky girls. So whateva.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-16T22:42:37Z Pimpy http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#bb5fb6bd-217a-4350-97f3-14b95ff7318f 2009-01-16T22:36:49Z 2009-01-16T22:36:49Z

Is that because Satan uses his right hand and you use your left? Or maybe your feet? I don't see how anyone could stand talking to you, much less being in the same room with you. Chode.

Pimpy 2009-01-16T22:36:49Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#fdecd71a-35ea-44aa-9102-df73d032aaa1 2009-01-16T22:36:24Z 2009-01-16T22:36:24Z

http://faq.tribe.net/thread/d40bf2e2-69f5-43d8-bb5f-7f1fbc0afd8b lets hear it for the crab. this is what tribers really think, no matter what shatter or malv try to tells us.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-16T22:36:24Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#eff5ee33-2e05-4d51-a39c-a1c505c0d38a 2009-01-16T22:32:44Z 2009-01-16T22:32:44Z

Are you still a virgin? --------- Not at all, in fact satans big final bust of an argument against me was that my sex life was more interesting than his. so, lets talk about what your mental health issues are that you go around asking such personal questions, eh?

prometheusPAN 2009-01-16T22:32:44Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#a46cf3dc-a243-4586-820a-a6826f7d499c 2009-01-16T22:30:39Z 2009-01-16T22:30:39Z

The art of writing is to get your point across with as few words as possible. "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." --Einstein He didn't need 10,000 to be intelligent. ------------ E=mcsquared was published with a word explanation indeed well above 10 thousand words, you idiot. In fact everything he did was via lengthy scientific papers. in this case, the complexities are what they are and i have provided the information most important to solving the problems. You just don't want the problems solved, because your an evil bastard vampire with a hard on for abusing people because you have no other way to gratify your ego. I personally suggest you try some nice good chanting of some positive affirmations, it sure beats being a bully because you ain't got nuthin betta.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-16T22:30:39Z Pimpy http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#3fba4db6-2df6-4a08-a3cc-5b3962d5e9d7 2009-01-15T22:41:28Z 2009-01-15T22:41:28Z

to put it bluntly, one easy way to estimate the IQ of a a discussion is to do a word count per response. Single sentence responses are 90 IQs. Single paragraphs are 100 IQs. 10 paragraphs, 120 IQ. 30 paragraphs, 140 IQ. 100 paragraphs, 180 IQ. you see how it goes. so, you say you want to make it impossible for the einsteins to chat here? ------------------- Wow, you are seriously the biggest douchebag on tribe. Are you still a virgin?

Pimpy 2009-01-15T22:41:28Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#055e0b63-601c-4e81-bf02-0585d4bb0191 2009-01-15T22:19:03Z 2009-01-15T22:19:03Z

The art of writing is to get your point across with as few words as possible. "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." --Einstein He didn't need 10,000 to be intelligent. --S

Shatter 2009-01-15T22:19:03Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#f6a25fb6-bb22-4d27-a14d-a715f351a940 2009-01-15T20:28:34Z 2009-01-15T20:28:34Z

well i actually think its stupid, because what you then do is limit the IQ of the discussion. to put it bluntly, one easy way to estimate the IQ of a a discussion is to do a word count per response. Single sentence responses are 90 IQs. Single paragraphs are 100 IQs. 10 paragraphs, 120 IQ. 30 paragraphs, 140 IQ. 100 paragraphs, 180 IQ. you see how it goes. so, you say you want to make it impossible for the einsteins to chat here? Pretty lame.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-15T20:28:34Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#1dae246a-d118-4087-bfb5-e22ada21c83a 2009-01-15T20:12:03Z 2009-01-15T20:12:03Z

I actually like the idea of a mod being able to impose a word count, not per person, but as a tool on the tribe itself that applies to the whole of its membership. Then no one is singled out.

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-15T20:12:03Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#8385dbc6-43ed-443b-86a2-00e5aa6467bf 2009-01-15T20:00:34Z 2009-01-15T20:00:18Z

is up to the moderators to impose a word count limit on Prom. ------------- wouldn't you like that. But of course a TROLL peanut gallery is a predictable side effect of working on this problem and, you and i have been here before. -------------- I did an electronic word count on the fellow recently and found his post clocked in at around 8,000 words. ----------- i did a guesstimate count on you, and its always under like 50 or 100. On my planet that means you aren't considered even sentient. complicated thinking is considered to start at around 10 thousand symbols. I actually parse way down for you pathetic muggles, you have no idea how well i cut the balance, your an ignorant tard with a cheap shot to take. ----------- We now limit him to twitter size posts. Anything over is deleted. --------- You have no power. i can play the inverse game. Delete all ad hominems, delete all straw man arguments, delete all incidental chatter, delete evasions, delete double bind set ups, and whats left of you? nothing but a long list of moderator actions.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-15T20:00:18Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#9e513e04-f15c-434d-97fd-fa3c1d0a7348 2009-01-15T19:52:25Z 2009-01-15T19:52:25Z

i like your chuck norris alt better.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-15T19:52:25Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#f63558d0-1649-47a8-b386-7f9ecf0b97b4 2009-01-15T19:33:30Z 2009-01-15T19:33:30Z

Wow, that Prom post came in just under 3,000 words. That is really brief for Prom. 8,000 is more typical. Still, it required us to scroll through page after page of screens. 'tard.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-15T19:33:30Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#098a232d-10f1-4a97-a187-600d44e53601 2009-01-15T18:05:12Z 2009-01-15T18:05:12Z

http://faq.tribe.net/thread/14446711-6f10-41d6-a369-e84d04875ed2?newpostingid=ae827019-8cdf-47bb-a1e7-cd39a489e63b#ae827019-8cdf-47bb-a1e7-cd39a489e63b The prometheuspan plan for solving the current troll/alpha dog dominion violence headtrip that is the cancer that keeps civilization stupid. 1. These principles must be utterly pragmatic to employ as rules in a forum, and yet be long term social engineering principles which look at the long term and gently shape it. 2. These principles must apply in each case the core principle of the balance between severity and mercy. Without enough of both yin or yang, the universe or any system which is a microfractal impression of the core scalar fractal holomorph will fall out of balance. A. This includes al kinds of systems, for instance weather which needs a day and night cycle, or social systems which require a certain amount of rules to enforce civility yet not enough rules to take away anybodies liberties. A large amount of rhetoric of the far right is based on a panic driven duality schema where they say if things go off in the direction of more rules or to many rules civilization will crumble. the interesting thing is that the balance point they are pointing at is real. But the current balance is skewed so far off balance to the right that the roof has now become a leg which lands over in insane retardsville. 3. The core problem of ignorance as it plays out in pack psychology; people fighting over things they know nothing about. B. Thus the core cure of education. Not unsubbing, public humiliation, or other forms of negative re-enforcement. You must employ pavlovs core gift to humanity in order to fix this problem. C. that core gift is this; No amount of merely negative re-enforcement ever makes any situation better, it just makes the criminals better or slyer or more twisted. You can't beat a dog into submission for long, eventually if you don't also love it its going to decide to finish the nightmare alpha monster as best as it can. D. Thus the true core of severity is its balance counterpoint in this and most instances; the system is only as good as the judgements made in bringing things up... you could call it the parental love side of the force. On the other hand on te severity or discipline side of the force you have what we might have to call parental discipline. The real truth about applying parental discipline with a child or an adult human whos behaving as one is that the truth is you can only claim moral authority with a person by demonstrating to them that you are doing your best to treat them and their situation fairly. E. Thus 'Discipline" in any successful adventure, even with a child is a love driven account system with very occasional negative energy withdrawals of large sums. IE, the parent gives to the child positive energy, and more positive energy; the child behaves badly, the adult gives a very short burst of negative energy which drains the emotional bonding account between parent and child. A parent must see that account in the childs mind and make sense of it and love a child in a manner that brings them up and opens doors for them to grow into places instead of boxing them in to keep them safe from themselves. F.The discipline side of a public forum is then the civility created by a successful moderation team who firstly acts to educate and empower its user base, as well as lead some discussion forums, but who then incidentally deals with the same crowd or mob to settle or resolve disputes as opportunities for educational demonstrative process. 4. Every person carries with them a shadow or subconscious elements of self which are for most people entirely subliminal. In public forums common parlance, we can call that aspect of self the inner troll. Everyone has an inner troll, and the curious thing about having an inner troll is its another part of you you have to take care of. A. Theres nothing wrong with sparring where both participants have agreed thats what they want to do. B. It is however assault to soft spar somebody who has not agreed to the new social conditions of soft sparring. C. Similarly, verbal or written communication can be used for psychological warfare. And thats an entire trip stretch. Its a place a lot of people get trapped inside of and they never learn to put down their pitchforks. D. Thanks to those people human civilization is incidentally still a big phat verbal abuse pitchfork society. Which is barbaric, primitive, stupid, self defeating, self dating, and ultimately which brings evolution to a grinding halt around the situation of breeding people stupid so that they will vote republican. And then make good propaganda war foot soldiers in their orwellian society... all the while pretending that any attempt to improve things is some form of socialist fascism. E. Given how pack psychology, the dominant social and political and religious paradigms, and egotism as well as what happens given that reality is based on fractal scalar mirroring, thus; F. the relationship any person has with society as a whole is some vague mirror of the relationship they have with themselves and vice versa; G. the relationship any person has with themselves is the relationship most people project at others socially. H. A person who does this is trapped in the matrix, and curiously you can demonstrate their trappedness very easily using formal conversational logic if you know what you are doing. 5. Conversational logic is the true golden science which fixes this if we pay attention. The science has ruled on this, but society hasn't caught up. a. Ad hominems. An ad hominem is a personal attack. In truth there are different version of what an ad hominem is depending on how formal the conversation is. In some debate situations, an ad hominem is defined as ANY USE OF ANY REFERENCE AT ALL TO THE COMMUNICATEE IN THE BODY OF THE MESSAGE>... You are allowed to greet and you are allowed to say goodbye, but in the strictest sense, the moment a person starts talking about the other person rather than the persons stated ideas they have drifted from focus on what is relevant. In more common parlance, or in legal language, for instance, an ad hominem is committed any time a person specifically attacks another person. In either case, an ad hominem is wrong because it makes the talker the subject and thus changes the subject. b. straw man arguments. When somebody misrepresents what you said and distorts it, or creates an entirely new argument and claims that its yours, and then knocks that down instead of your argument, thats a straw man argument. C. Double bind. The best example i am in often is the jerk who insults me ten times for being an idiot according to them and then holds it against me later for "bragging" that my IQ is 180. Well, my IQ is 180, and they are the ones who brought up the subject of my intelligence. Or the people whos argument is that you spammed them. Right so your argument is "i can't handle this its too big and i don't have enough attention span to look at it so you are bad for even bringing it up" kinds of trippers. Your then damned if you do bother to present the information they obviously don't have and damned if you don't by such logic. d. There are these things in language called propositiions, syllogisms, and arguments. Learn what they are and how they stack into each other. e. Then there is the definition, in conversational logic, of validity, cogency, and TRUTH VALUE. f. While the current trend is of course anarchy and anarchism with trolls laying claim to waste any ideas to do anything smarter, the first site on the net which actually employs formal logic to drive both moderation and administration (leading conversations and tossing TROLLS off by confiscating their accounts.) will evolve rapidly into a viral phenomenon. This will make such a site extremely popular once it takes off, and will then spawn a new set of competition variables as other places try to implement and create similar social situations. g. The main reason for this is that formal logic organizes the grand conversation into something auto self searched. With one good moderator leading a conversation with their head also in a textbook, that moderator can lead a conversation which is incredibly smart, informative, interesting, and orders of magnitude better than what wikipedia can now do because it too is based still on pack psychology. h. The second reason for this is that formal logic directly weeds out social parasites so effectively and so quickly that the social energies now being employed to keep the population ignorant would be blown off and the natural evolutionary sequence which has been being held back by an enormous artificial earth dam can burst through all that and claim everything waiting for us at the next intellectual evolutionary level. i. Conversational logic is thus the "Severity" side of our model. It turns you into a coldly rational and calculating individual with no biases and a clear and lucid understanding of the difference between what you really do know and what you probably don't. 6. Non Violent communication or NVC is a relationship and communications meta model which converts positive energy relating into a very simple ritualized form of conversation. 7. Maslow and Pavlov fill out the rest of the side of mercy. 8. My suggestion to tribe then is this; 1. Run a user based back ground check on the hard core users who are interested in it, and then pick 3 user liasons per each paid staff member. 2. These volunteers will act as secretaries and as a sort of interface with tribers. 3. The new moderators will not have unsub powers for tribe as a whole but should have limited global moderation powers to do things like move posts. (deletion is always problematic as then its missing. Organizing it is better. Similarly, don't unsub an account, get into it as an admin and change the password. Think how much easier that would now make the task of giving me back my old account. (prometheuspan@hotmail.com. I was unsubbed for reporting a stalker.I wasn't asking for her removal i was asking for a moderator to talk some sense into her.And then later warning people in tribes about her once i saw her in action abusing others. She got like a dozen people unsubbed before the staff unsubbed her apparently realizing who was the real culprit.) 4. The new moderators will HOST tribe. that means that they will chat with tribers in a few limited tribes, lead conversations in those tribes, and occasionally come into situations as a third element in a dispute larger than a single tribe. 5. Preferably if its done right using 100 instances of that(dealing with inter/multi tribe disputes.) to teach the mob how not to do it and then not having to deal with it much after that. 6. Have your moderation team open not just the five or ten tribe tribes that now exist but a whole new batch of main tribe tribes which tribe can now feature, where the moderators lead conversations smart and ultra civil as demonstrations of how it can be done that way. The list of topics is as easy as obamas platform planks plus 50 sciences. With a tribe on astronomy thats got good moderation, you should have a virtual open ended textbook on astronomy that beats google searches for depth, quality and ease of access as well as information density. IE; show tribers how smart management of a tribe can turn a tribe into something truly useful, educational, ultra civil, and etc. 7. Don't require all tribes to be like that. 8. Each tribe has its own sort of charter for social protocols and thats as it should be. Global moderators should take this into account. A troll who starts a troll tribe to play innocently with their inner and other peoples trolls can be left alone to bicker and ad hominem and straw man away to his hearts content; thats that tribes version of social order and it has its own logic and rules which should be respected. 9. By one definition then a TROLL is somebody who tries to change the social order always back to pack psychology and bully tactics; a verbal bully. a. all bullies by definition are actually weak minded vampires. b. so if you help their minds get stronger, they can fix, or... c. If you help them put together a psychology kit thats self sufficient, they can quit being vampires. d. The real key to problem solving process with TROLLS is to see them as victims of bad ideas. good moderation is not about punishing somebody, its about educating them and empowering them to have a better tactic. Its not about caging people, but about liberating them. 10. The troll complaint against rules is that such interfere with personal liberty. What is never discussed and never pointed out is that a sociey run by pack psychology and bullies isn't a liberated society either. A bullies idea is that its his personal liberty to boss people around, harass them, stalk them, belittle, slander, attack, etc. That idea is a wrong idea, ethically, socially, and by now, perhaps most important evolutionarilly. The real truth abut cages and liberty in social systems is that we now exist in a civilization of wage slavery as a cage and troll propaganda warfare for our intellectual public discourse. Its pathetic.Its a cage, and the way out of it is to realize that good rules don't hinder personal liberty, they are the ballwarks and the foundations upon which a society gains enough energy for us to have personal liberties.You can't be liberated or free in a society which sees you as a labor commodity or which treats you like meat. You can't be liberated or free in a tribe where TROLLZ shoot down all of the better thinking by attacking the geeks so that they can be the alphas. Good social rules are the wings a social system uses to fly. Without them, any social system is going to be grounded in the banal, and confined to the lowest common denominators in terms of IQ and attention span. So the real truth is that the trolls are the ones selling mental cages and i am the one whos offering true liberty. 11. To implement a successful moderation system requires close attention to the above principle. Moderation is not about controlling people, its about giving them the wings to let them fly. The trolls are projecting their trip about their own mental cages, which has nothing to do with reality as it is. THEIR rules are the mental cage. True liberty is when a group of 30 people fall into phase and become a super genius think tank off exploring some interesting aspect of reality. True liberty is when your ten hobby groups totally rock and your life is awesome because you have such great support for your hobby group. 12. So, you have your moderation team running these tribes aimed for peak performance in demonstration of what a tribe can do; the very top of what can be done with a tribe. And those demonstrations then help people to learn and to see what to do and how to work making their own tribes better. And if you are smart, eventually what happens is the moderation styles somewhat catch on, and then tribe becomes a place with lots of "troll" hang outs but without an over-all TROLL dominance of the site. 13. This is of course just a bullet point brief, I can detail it but i think it might be better to work democratically towards detailing better than i would alone. The upshod on two sides is that you need a moderation team. You can do that with or without me personally, but it seems like a waste to waste such a well educated and lucid volunteer. Aside from myself, the persons i know of on tribe i might nominate as others include lokifreign, wild apache, djarum, and, until recently, shatter, tho i may have been too kind in my estimation of him. Dimi comes to mind, patasapien, tho i doubt either of them would be interested. The people you want are the ones who previously walked the line. The people who managed to live as both sides of their nature in a prodictive over all manner. People who can hang with the trolls or with the TROLLs. And yet who can come to a conversation and be present and lucid and adult while still making their case and making an argument. The problem is if you get somebody whos like djarum used to be; idealist and shell shocked and demanding that the world be sterile to suit them. Thats too far the other direction. I'll continue to write this little missive and keep you updated for versions, since its becoming so relevant. :) In the meantime, again, I ask, how can tribe solve these problems sanely rather than trying to absolve itself of culpability and sweep things always under the carpet? I am offering solutions not merely accusations, i am offering evolution not as shatter accuses "spamming." So, please answer this thread with your own ideas about how to make tribe better, how to do moderation without doing fascism, and etc. thanks in advance, peace pan

prometheusPAN 2009-01-15T18:05:12Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#41777e24-950f-4a8e-a59a-8c1b963f6420 2009-01-15T14:59:16Z 2009-01-15T14:59:16Z

Me thinks thou dost protest too much. Hypocrite --S

Shatter 2009-01-15T14:59:16Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#f1e70a66-a7b6-4f8b-80bb-35f17b147b8d 2009-01-15T07:06:12Z 2009-01-15T07:04:28Z

No, you specifically said that tribe needs to deal with trolls. That's heavy handed Big Brother. ---------- No, its not and especially its not just because you say so. The real truth is that any society or culture must balance personal liberties against criminal and abuse behaviors. Yo uare abusive and you'd like to stay that way, but thats not the solution for tribe, humanity, or tribers in general. Big brother is that balance out of balance where theres too much control of people and government is too in your face. And thats a problem fer sure and we don't want that kind of dystopia either. but the dystopia we have right now is created for the opposite reason- not enough ethics, not enough morals, and not enough policing and not enough problem solving. I'm not pro big brother, your pro anarchistic chaos and entropy because you want to be able to get away with being abusive. ------------ Nobody has been talking about pictures, so now you are redirecting. You call spin doctor, and thus, try to invalidate my argument. ---------- When you take things out of context and change meanings and project new bullshit into something, thats spin doctoring. you have repeatedly spun and lied about me in our short exchange and i don't think your going to be able to hide it. ------------- You resort to personal attack. You are guilt of hypocrisy. A LOT of hypocrisy. It stinks like butt. ----------- You attacked me 10 posts deep before i took the gloves off, and now you want to play the victim. thats rich, but its stupid. ------------- -- Wow, ok, I gotta quote the next one: "I'm thinking holistically" That's so rich. I mean, I'm gonna need insulin. HOLISTICALLY. Gads, why don't you just go into Quantum Metaphysics while you're at it? ----------- I could do that for probably close to a hundred pages. try me. ---------- See, it's funny because the word you are trying to grasp for is ALTRUISTICALLY. Not holistically, unless you are a faith healer using phony water to cure cancer. ---------- Not at all. The holistic viewpoint can see that mere altruism is limited. You don't get to put me in boxes, you don't know me and you don't know my head. You'd like it to be so, as that would be convenient for your two dimensional half argument, but its bullshit, like everything else you have said so far. ----------- -- If I were to attempt to prostrate myself like an assclown I would end up in a rather compromising position on top of you which would be kinda gay. You are all over the place and can't even stay on topic. How does the ecological impact of oil and energy have one thing to do with tribes policy on harassment? ------------ good question. Why did you bring it up? --------- You with the slightest nudge immediately devolve into a neanderthal pounding rocks and slinging insults like a 1st grader. ---------- You attacked me for several posts and i told you i would play nice and would prefer to and you kept right on trucking. now its flame pong and you feel burned. oh, poor little shatter. ----------- You sling baseless slander while i"m simply working with your own words, ----------- You sling baseless slander and spin and lie and bullshit and project and spin and cycle. I mirror back your conversational model. Your just but sore because i am better at flame pong than you are. ----------- and calling into question what you profess to be true because i think it's a truckload of product to make a dung beetle quite happy. ------------ Then by all means address a single claim of mine over its substance. ----------- example: You say you are a 180 IQ super genius poly math major and I say that I don't think you're very smart based on what you've had to say. ----------- I have provided proofs that i am a genius and you complain that they are spam. Maybe you should read them and think more carefully about what kind of mind can do a cross analysis cost benefit analysis for all the major forms of energy and come up with the only feasible energy plan to save our asses while everybody else in the political arena stumbles. I'm solid gold, and i know it. You want to have it both ways. You want to attack me by calling into question my intelligence and sanity and then attack me for stating the truth of my iq. I notice its a pattern of yours, i think i'm going to call it trick 3 in your circus. What you "think" is garbled shit you projected in order to fight me. it has nothing to do with reality, me, or the topic at hand. --------------- In return you insult my mother. --------- she was a dumb bitch for having you. Aren't you glad i have my trollese handbook handy and i can speak your native toungue, you good for nothing piece of mole turd? ------------------ Ya that's rich. ---------- pong. pong. pong. pong. pong. pong. pong. pong......... dah dah dah...

prometheusPAN 2009-01-15T07:04:28Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#6376e5ed-dda2-43d1-9604-0c3f6891dda3 2009-01-15T04:49:57Z 2009-01-15T04:49:57Z

No, you specifically said that tribe needs to deal with trolls. That's heavy handed Big Brother. Nobody has been talking about pictures, so now you are redirecting. You call spin doctor, and thus, try to invalidate my argument. You resort to personal attack. You are guilt of hypocrisy. A LOT of hypocrisy. It stinks like butt. -- Wow, ok, I gotta quote the next one: "I'm thinking holistically" That's so rich. I mean, I'm gonna need insulin. HOLISTICALLY. Gads, why don't you just go into Quantum Metaphysics while you're at it? See, it's funny because the word you are trying to grasp for is ALTRUISTICALLY. Not holistically, unless you are a faith healer using phony water to cure cancer. -- If I were to attempt to prostrate myself like an assclown I would end up in a rather compromising position on top of you which would be kinda gay. You are all over the place and can't even stay on topic. How does the ecological impact of oil and energy have one thing to do with tribes policy on harassment? You with the slightest nudge immediately devolve into a neanderthal pounding rocks and slinging insults like a 1st grader. You sling baseless slander while i"m simply working with your own words, and calling into question what you profess to be true because i think it's a truckload of product to make a dung beetle quite happy. example: You say you are a 180 IQ super genius poly math major and I say that I don't think you're very smart based on what you've had to say. In return you insult my mother. Ya that's rich. --S

Shatter 2009-01-15T04:49:57Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#0fccce08-869d-486e-94b3-9b86f59aed7f 2009-01-15T03:20:24Z 2009-01-15T03:20:24Z

Funny you mention Orwellian since by your own admission you enjoy having Big Brother watching over everyone's shoulder. ----------- no, i provided a theoretical method by which that could be done for photos. Since its allready being done so badly, my comments would in fact offer and improvement. However several points i made were to the effect that i was pointing out how it could be done, but that i was not in fact advocating it. thus, you are once again a liar, a spin doctor, a propaganda bullshit artist, and an evil bastard. ------------- You can't even keep a straight train of thought. I say "Each person is responsible for what they write" and you claim that by saying that, they aren't responsible. ------------ I'm thinking holistically and you are thinking on forced false dualities which you think are spectrums but which are actually hyperdimensional pseudo plots of several different values and you have the gall to try to tell me i'm not keeping a stright line of thought? Your only line of thought is to attack me. Period. To this end you will even prostitute yourself as an ass clown. pathetic. --------- You have been advocating that tribe monitor all posts with a heavy hand and censor when needed to protect people from trolls. You are the one getting all turned around, not me. ---------- Bullshit, i never advocated that. What i did in fact advocate was to create a user base labor pool of trustworthy long term tribers to act as an intermediate form of government between tribe staff and moderators, and i suggested that we put our heads together and write a moderators handbook. I have made many other suggestions, none of which are the bullshit you are now trying to pin on me. ------------ You are claiming that people are hounded and abused by bastards like me. --------- You aren't abused, your abusive. ---------- I retort that all I have to go on is what they are writing, and I hold them accountable for it on a case by case basis. Write something decent and I'll reply in kind. --------- Bullshit again, i have written many decent things and all you have ever done is attack them because you are a troll with a trolls agenda. --------- Thus far you have offered nothing but white noise, and that you are an astute genealogist. ------------- Again, you are just talking out your ass, i have offered many good and useful points which you have chosen to ignore. --------- You cite that my examples are rare cases, yet every example you have given have all been hypothetical or single instance examples, and nothing even statistically of note. All theory, no practice. ----------- Again, bullshit, i have lived on tribe and seen how it works and fails to work and i have been around the net to see it all over. I have real live experience facilitating peak experiences and thus sorting heavy duty shadows on the fly. I know exactly what i am talking about and have presented in all cases both compelling information and a compelling argument. All you have here is what you accuse me of- your projection is an admission. You are the one with the white noise, i have content and signal, you don't even have a signal to noise ratio- just noise. ---------- You still haven't come up with one single means to prevent access to this system by somebody who has been kicked off. --------- I came up with several partial methods which you dismiss because you are an orwellian doublethought troll who doesn't want any system to tell him to quit being a fucktard. --------- If you lack the technical expertise in this matter, please so say. Its' ok if you don't know. I certainly wouldn't expect a poly-math major with a 180 IQ and more knowledge than all govt combined to understand how to go about this. It is very complicated after all. ------------- This is not a technical question its a systems theory and cost/benifit question. The answer which i already gave is that the cost of kicking people off in a manner which does allow them to get back on if they circumvent the ban is very low and as one part in a total system could be very effective. If all you do is have per tribe moderators on the one hand and unsubbing on the other, its easy to see theres no middle ground and that all responses to serious issues will be either ignored or overblown. I am not here to answer your pathetic leading questions, your question has no merit. ------------- This should be good. Explain how that if a person is responsible for their own behavior then they are unaccountable for that behavior. Those are your words, not mine. --------- Thats your reasoning, i'm just watching you do it and reporting it. you explain it, its your head, i just have a glass window. You see, i know psychology, and all you are doing is projecting since none of this is about me. Your projections are thus accidental admissions, and you tell a trained ear al kinds of things about yourself depending on how you seek for the next cheap shot. -------------- No copy and pasting mr Packrat. In your own words. Try to form something cognitive and not taken from Wikipedia. --------- Yes, by all means, do explain to us how having no oversight and having chaos and having legalized abuse on tribe is responsible on the part of tribe, or how they will be able to shuck off their accountability when things explode because they have sent the ultimate green light to abusive people. go ahead. You can't do it. In fact all you are good for is attacks and lies and spin doctored crap. quit wasting yours and everybody elses time, and quit projecting your personal demons at me.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-15T03:20:24Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#ca7de766-b941-4021-84c3-5d57042ee0e8 2009-01-15T02:59:12Z 2009-01-15T02:59:12Z

Funny you mention Orwellian since by your own admission you enjoy having Big Brother watching over everyone's shoulder. You can't even keep a straight train of thought. I say "Each person is responsible for what they write" and you claim that by saying that, they aren't responsible. You have been advocating that tribe monitor all posts with a heavy hand and censor when needed to protect people from trolls. You are the one getting all turned around, not me. You are claiming that people are hounded and abused by bastards like me. I retort that all I have to go on is what they are writing, and I hold them accountable for it on a case by case basis. Write something decent and I'll reply in kind. Thus far you have offered nothing but white noise, and that you are an astute genealogist. You cite that my examples are rare cases, yet every example you have given have all been hypothetical or single instance examples, and nothing even statistically of note. All theory, no practice. You still haven't come up with one single means to prevent access to this system by somebody who has been kicked off. If you lack the technical expertise in this matter, please so say. Its' ok if you don't know. I certainly wouldn't expect a poly-math major with a 180 IQ and more knowledge than all govt combined to understand how to go about this. It is very complicated after all. This should be good. Explain how that if a person is responsible for their own behavior then they are unaccountable for that behavior. Those are your words, not mine. No copy and pasting mr Packrat. In your own words. Try to form something cognitive and not taken from Wikipedia. --S

Shatter 2009-01-15T02:59:12Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#c05caa93-9192-4de1-89c4-6bd6162a17d5 2009-01-15T02:41:26Z 2009-01-15T02:41:26Z

Hardly. What I'm pointing out to blue (or anyone else for that matter) that runs around telling everyone how they are a victim, and are victimized and such is basically screaming for attention and wanting to be victimized. If they arn't being a victim then they seek it out so they can then say "See? I'm a victim!" ------------- standard blame the victim apologist tripe. Sure that kind of crap does happen, but more often than not theres some fucktard bastard whos decided to be a bully asshat, like you, and there really is an intended victim of that bullying, in this case, me. Not that this makes me a victim, because i'm strong enough to slowly chew through you. But other people would be victimized, and your approach is abuse, so if thats your problem solving process, then the people who are claiming victim around you are justified in that probably by and large. Stop being an abusive bastard, and then you can use that excuse without it being comedic, tragic, and pathetic. ------------ Much like somebody who runs around trolling and when they get a retort scream "TROLLZ!!!!!!!" ---------- Again, that can happen, but all you are doing is pleading special cases and pretending they are the only cases. The reverse is true, your special cases are contrived exceptions to the actual realities. ------------- As for my evil plans... yes... you've outted me. My evil master plan of making everyone actually responsible for their own behavior and not having other people to blame is evil. ------------- Sounds great, except that its orwellian. Your plan is to make everybody irresponsible for their own behavior and more specifically, unaccountable. you have reversed the meanings in your thought process, but i'm paying too close attention. ----------- No more blaming of parents, society, their dog, spirits, god, satan, the weather (though i will allow for some blame of santa ana wings and 99 degree weather as that's been proven), cosmic beams, tin foil hats, gov't mind control and what have you. ---------- This is classic BS. Again, yes there are people who are like this, but the truth is that the problem is abusive people, in this case, like you. ------------ Everyone is solely responsible for whatever they do, good or bad. That is the EVIL plan. Am I that transparent? ---------- You are transparent, but not in the way you imply or seem to think.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-15T02:41:26Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#87817009-353b-4c2b-8308-3f5954f817f6 2009-01-14T19:46:16Z 2009-01-14T19:46:16Z

However it gets worked if the ugly can be easily hidden by the user, I agree that's the winner winner chicken dinner way to go.

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-14T19:46:16Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#65d708b7-1165-4783-b65e-d899763f0edb 2009-01-14T18:39:36Z 2009-01-14T18:39:01Z

Hardly. What I'm pointing out to blue (or anyone else for that matter) that runs around telling everyone how they are a victim, and are victimized and such is basically screaming for attention and wanting to be victimized. If they arn't being a victim then they seek it out so they can then say "See? I'm a victim!" Much like somebody who runs around trolling and when they get a retort scream "TROLLZ!!!!!!!" As for my evil plans... yes... you've outted me. My evil master plan of making everyone actually responsible for their own behavior and not having other people to blame is evil. No more blaming of parents, society, their dog, spirits, god, satan, the weather (though i will allow for some blame of santa ana wings and 99 degree weather as that's been proven), cosmic beams, tin foil hats, gov't mind control and what have you. Everyone is solely responsible for whatever they do, good or bad. That is the EVIL plan. Am I that transparent? --S

Shatter 2009-01-14T18:39:01Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#7828cfca-4f6f-4d0d-a816-11ed1de9ba54 2009-01-14T17:09:53Z 2009-01-14T17:09:53Z

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victim_blaming Victim blaming is holding the victims of a crime, an accident, or any type of abusive maltreatment to be entirely or partially responsible for the unfortunate incident that has occurred in their life, often when the victim had performed no actions to facilitate the incident. It is also about blaming individuals for their personal distress or for social difficulties, rather than the other parties involved or the overarching social system in place. Contents [hide] * 1 History of the concept * 2 Just-world hypothesis * 3 Different legislatures * 4 References * 5 See also * 6 See also * 7 External links [edit] History of the concept The phrase "Blaming the victim" was coined by William Ryan in his classic book of the same title, as a critque of Daniel Patrick Moynihan's 1965 work The Negro Family: The Case for National Action, usually simply referred to as the Moynihan Report. Moynihan's book summarized his theories about ghetto formation and intergenerational poverty. Ryan's critique cast the Moynihan theories as subtle (and not so subtle) attempts to divert responsibility for poverty from social structural factors to the behaviors and cultural patterns of the poor [1].[1] The phrase was quickly adopted by advocates for crime victims, in particular rape victims accused of abetting their victimization, although this usage is conceptually distinct from the sociological critique developed by Ryan. [edit] Just-world hypothesis It has been proposed that one cause of victim-blaming is the "Just World Hypothesis". People who believe that the world has to be fair may find it hard or impossible to accept a situation in which a person is unfairly and badly hurt. This leads to a sense that, somehow, the victim must have surely done 'something' to deserve their fate. Another theory entails the need to protect one's own sense of invulnerability. This inspires people to believe that rape only happens to those who deserve or provoke the assault (Schneider et al., 1994). This is a way of feeling safer. If the potential victim avoids the behaviors of the past victims then they themselves will remain safe and feel less vulnerable. A global survey of attitudes toward sexual violence by the Global Forum for Health Research shows that victim-blaming concepts are at least partially accepted in many countries. In some countries, victim-blaming is more common, and women who have been raped are sometimes deemed to have behaved improperly. Often, these are countries where there is a significant social divide between the freedoms and status afforded to men and women. This theory dates from very ancient times: the biblical Book of Job offers a canonical exploration of it. Supporters of this view (once referred to as "Job's comforters") must perforce accept that to do otherwise would require them to give up their belief in a just world, and require them to believe in a world where bad things – such as poverty, rape, starvation, and murder – can happen to good people for no good reason. The cognitive dissonance in doing this becomes too great, and results in victim-blaming. Though a form of attribution error, this incorrect attribution differs from the "Fundamental Attribution Error" principally in its focus. Both concepts however center around a tendency to ignore situational contributors in favor of supposed internal failings on part of the subject being judged. In the Just-World Hypothesis the subject's actions are not being scrutinized, but their situation; whereas those making the Fundamental Attribution Error tend to focus primarily on attributing actions to personal qualities and ignoring situational causes. Crimes or other events that create a victim give opportunity for both attribution errors – in blaming the victim for "allowing" themselves to be victimized by crime as well as the inability to cope afterwards. Despite their frequent simultaneity though, they remain two distinct attribution errors. [edit] Different legislatures In the United States, rape is unique in that it is the only crime in which there are statutory protections designed in favor of the victim (known as "rape shield laws"). These were enacted in response to the common defense tactic of "putting the victim on trial". Typical rape shield laws prohibit cross-examination of the victim with respect to certain issues, such as his or her prior sexual history, or the manner in which he or she was dressed at the time of the rape. Most states and the federal rules, however, provide exceptions to the rape shield law where evidence of prior sexual history is used to provide an alternative explanation for physical evidence, where the defendant and the victim had a prior consensual sexual relationship, and where exclusion of evidence would violate the defendant's constitutional rights.[citation needed] Blaming the Victim The most common emotional responses to sexual harassment, battering, and rape are guilt, fear, powerlessness, shame, betrayal, anger, and denial. Guilt is often the first and deepest response. Anger may arise only later; this is not surprising, because as women we often have no sense of a right to be free from these kinds of violence. We may feel guilty about violence done to us because we are taught that our job is to make men happy, and if they aren't, we--not they--are to blame. Many of us heard from our parents, "Boys will be boys, so girls must take care"--the message being that we can avoid unwanted male attention if only we are careful enough. If anything goes wrong, it must be our fault. Blaming the victim releases the man who commits violence from the responsibility for what he has done. Friends or family may blame the victim in order to feel safe themselves: "She got raped because she walked alone after midnight. I'd never do that, so rape won't happen to me." WOMEN ARE NOT GUILTY FOR VIOLENCE COMMITTED BY MEN ON OUR BODY, MIND, AND SPIRIT. THIS VIOLENCE HAPPENS BECAUSE OF MEN'S GREATER POWER AND THEIR MISUSE OF THAT POWER. http://www.feminist.com/resources/ourbodies/viol_blame.html ----------- it happens because evil jerks believe in violence as a problem solving process or relationship tool, and because we have not learned how to define the differences between free speech and abuse.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-14T17:09:53Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#7a3d6afd-cbb0-4218-aa53-b53e40406b6a 2009-01-14T07:11:14Z 2009-01-14T07:11:14Z

But I am a rock, I am an island! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=My9I8q-iJCI

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-14T07:11:14Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#3e227dbd-b50a-4d13-b502-8bb3c3d5c9ca 2009-01-14T06:58:31Z 2009-01-14T06:58:31Z

People don't alienate and discard you blue, you do it to yourself. ---------- whatever you do don't start taking advice from shatter, its not like hes got a clue. You do have some self destructive behaviors, but its not all you, its more like being magnetized to abusive people- shatter just wants all the victims to be at fault for the crime. that way he can make the world work out in his ego driven evil bastard schema of a moral paradigm.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-14T06:58:31Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#beb220c6-3ff8-4928-bd99-3a48aa012d30 2009-01-14T01:47:39Z 2009-01-14T01:47:39Z

Hardly, you replied to me. Please don't start suffering from PP syndrome. You're much better than that. So be the rock in the ocean instead. Either way, you're still a rock. --S

Shatter 2009-01-14T01:47:39Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#d660b855-48a5-4426-8931-afd5d8552454 2009-01-14T00:47:09Z 2009-01-14T00:47:09Z

Shatter says: " they would have missed us debugging the TIFF problem. " "Us"? You participated in that thread? I must have been ignoring you. ;) Let me explain like Dr. Phil...I'm like a rock in a blender. I don't blend. Someday I'll have to tell you something. But not today.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-14T00:47:09Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#6ff8d864-e952-4939-84bc-1b153e091853 2009-01-14T00:29:48Z 2009-01-14T00:29:48Z

Well, that depends. Somebody may have got buttsore and ignore nuked me or you because of this tribe, however that being the case they would have missed us debugging the TIFF problem. People don't alienate and discard you blue, you do it to yourself. --S

Shatter 2009-01-14T00:29:48Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#7858bc93-eaf0-427f-ae72-6aaf0483e367 2009-01-14T00:22:13Z 2009-01-14T00:22:13Z

Shatter says: " then trying to carry on a conversation with only half the people " Isn't that what people are doing already? Choosing to respond to the messages and/or people they want to respond to? Whether it's a negative response or a positive one, people already discard the posts of other people. This discarding of people and posts can even be done blatantly, so that people are extra chummy (online PDA) in threads to purposely exclude others. It's part of the group process. It can be done selectively, whereby an individual can discard the posts of certain people or about certain topics, simply because they are not important at the moment. Within thread, or within tribe, this is done. When we go to a tribe, we may favor or check threads that are created by a person we like, or about a topic we enjoy. We prioritize our time. It works the same for harassment. If one is harassing a particular individual, those are the tribes that are visited, and those are the threads that are visited. And there's that pleasure in other people's suffering that you mentioned, Shatter. Some people really do enjoy picking on other people.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-14T00:22:13Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#2a5b0dbe-18d0-4e9d-8118-55c31e9fdd0d 2009-01-13T23:08:53Z 2009-01-13T23:08:53Z

The problem with an ignore all mute is the backlash of a trigger finger, and then trying to carry on a conversation with only half the people. With selective weighted ranking then things get shifted around and the crap settling down and cream rising to the top. If you have somebody that never has a single redeeming value, then they'll always be under a tab, where as somebody who is only 50% asshat you'll see in theory, half their messages. The biggest trick is on the back end are effectively secret "credit" scores which quietly rewards to good users of a system and ignored the useless ones. eg- another metric being Number of posts made with + verses number made with negative. weight this against their own voting metrics. etc etc. --S

Shatter 2009-01-13T23:08:53Z SN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#3fff4b6e-9f61-42d3-a80b-12c8c7634e52 2009-01-13T20:29:05Z 2009-01-13T20:29:05Z

I'm with the Pixie... oh and please include snuffalfogous's on that list

SN 2009-01-13T20:29:05Z Sqweegle http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#a8393113-6f39-47a8-986d-99c09b4dda06 2009-01-13T19:09:06Z 2009-01-13T19:09:06Z

I'm concerned 'bout tha heffalumps an' woozles.

Sqweegle 2009-01-13T19:09:06Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#db6b3b9a-7774-4516-a133-79d309548f34 2009-01-13T17:41:24Z 2009-01-13T17:41:24Z

Exactly what I suggested elsewhere, thottbot is a great system of self thread management. I think Yahoo Answers (or some Yahoo board) has a similar idea, and you can set the threshold of reply quality you'd like to see. If you could add the ignore functionality wherin it autocollapses users posts who are also on your ignore list, that would be as good as a mute button, and trolling would quickly become irrelevant. Trolls can and will conspire to 'rate' each others posts into the stratosphere of positive with a bajillion sock puppets, so rating isn't the greatest solution, only the ability to ignore a given users posts really hides them from you. Even if it needs to be specific to each tribe they are in, it would still be helpful to the end user. They could effectively push a 'mute' button on poster's they don't care to read. The thread might take a hit in readability for that user, but they could always just expand the comment again and read it if they missed something relevant. I agree this would be awesome to implement.

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-13T17:41:24Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#f32985f4-b4ea-4a60-b715-310a43fd118c 2009-01-13T14:03:10Z 2009-01-13T14:03:10Z

Are you familiar with Digg? It's more like that. Also, keep in mind if something has a negative, that doesn't mean that it will automatically get ignored. In fact, nothing get's removed, that's' part of the charm. In fact, if something has a negative because somebody is a poopsmear, others can still see it and give a positive to offset. many times in that system casual readers will see something negative rated that most certain isn't and adjust. Their vote may carry more weight than negative taggers and off set quite a bit. In this system, I've seen posts that had quite a few negatives and were still a highlighted post, and were very informative. Again, it's a system that could be developed. Many sites are adopting this type of a tag so it's not totally unique. I've told you before though, your whole emo "oh woe is me, I'm hated" diatribe is really old. Knock it off. Nobody hates you. --S

Shatter 2009-01-13T14:03:10Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#93003b56-3042-43a8-9166-e115770d2e45 2009-01-13T13:06:07Z 2009-01-13T13:06:07Z

If people know who gave them the bad vote, they will respond in kind. If people don't know who gave them the bad vote, everyone becomes a suspect. The former makes for wars, the latter makes for a very uncomfortable situation, not unlike alts that start crap and no one knows who it is, but everyone has someone to blame.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-13T13:06:07Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#18dbdeb7-aab2-48d1-9c58-ef41c7396429 2009-01-13T12:55:38Z 2009-01-13T12:55:38Z

Tribe in it's hey day was rampant with trolls and peopel didn't seem to mind. ----------- didn't seem? oh brother. planet delusional hello? ------------- The Jan regime came in and started clamping down not only on trolls, but anything potentially offensive to anyway, with heavy handed regulation, control and deletion of content. The result is what let tribe empty. More peopel left to being told they had to keep everything 100% private at all times. --------- Yeah, they sucked bad and they did it all wrong ,putting the cart before the horse and unsubbing people for no good reason. Thats got nothing to do with good order. Bad order sucks, but entropy without any kind of order sucks even worse. ------------- The fact that people had to start tribes, to advertise their private tribes to try to let people who would be into that sort of tribe, about teh tribe, speaks volumes about the very hostile atmosphere tribe used to have. ---------- And still has. ----------- Trolls aren't a problem. Creepy stalker type assholes are a problem, or people going out of their way to harass somebody anywhere they post at any time. That's just down right annoying. Ranks up there with teh people that think they should be free to express any opinion they like at anytime, and if somebody disagrees vocally with them then they are labeled as a "Troll". -------- trolls ARE a problem, unless you live on planet whackjob delusion. ------- Anyone that's played WoW knows about thottbot. I found their system of allowing public comments on anything to be really well done. People posting were given a rating score. Anyone could vote on what they posted, +/-. They had a very nice metrics system for adding weight to people, and even highlighting messages that were very relevant, and auto collapsing ones that were just trite fluff. The need for nuking people wasn't needed. They wort of auto nuked, and long flame fests sorta got buried in a thread while relevant information and good discussion managed to naturally rise to the top. --------- Sounds great, i have suggested such systems as one possible means to deal with the issue only to be shot down for even trying on several occasions. ----------

prometheusPAN 2009-01-13T12:55:38Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#b7eb83c2-42fd-46dc-9f40-2aa89f938444 2009-01-13T10:59:09Z 2009-01-13T10:59:09Z

I good rating system though tracks full metrics, something teh flagging system is lacking. Votes are weighted. People who run around dropping negatives on everything under the sub as a metric should be counted less, people who positively vote on everything are similar. There's also ratios of viewed to vote that's a plausible metric. The trick is to set up a lot of these metrics, and make it rather complicated how scores are generated, then never tell anyone exactly how it works. That way, abuse is prevented. The current flagging model is not weighted. It's based on about three complaints, regardless of who they come from. It does take into account IP address. It's the worst possible situation for a system. --S

Shatter 2009-01-13T10:59:09Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#aba89275-aaca-4953-b0ab-61c9c39c4606 2009-01-13T08:36:26Z 2009-01-13T08:36:26Z

The rating system only works if people are individually honest. They are not on Tribe. Gangs of people will go from tribe to tribe to cause problems. And would definitely take advantage of a rating system to screw over anyone new. It's already done, via words. All you have to do is go to Extreme Honesty, which is the best example of a vocal rating system and how it can be used negatively. It's like a newbie spider web trap. And Brainstorm in the past was about the same. Just like in the horror movies, I sit here thinking, oh you poor bastard, you just HAD to go into that room and you had no idea what was on the other side of the door. You're gonna get creamed.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-13T08:36:26Z Shatter http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#37426359-3847-4109-b5b0-923f40cca8eb 2009-01-13T08:03:36Z 2009-01-13T08:03:19Z

Tribe in it's hey day was rampant with trolls and peopel didn't seem to mind. The Jan regime came in and started clamping down not only on trolls, but anything potentially offensive to anyway, with heavy handed regulation, control and deletion of content. The result is what let tribe empty. More peopel left to being told they had to keep everything 100% private at all times. The fact that people had to start tribes, to advertise their private tribes to try to let people who would be into that sort of tribe, about teh tribe, speaks volumes about the very hostile atmosphere tribe used to have. Trolls aren't a problem. Creepy stalker type assholes are a problem, or people going out of their way to harass somebody anywhere they post at any time. That's just down right annoying. Ranks up there with teh people that think they should be free to express any opinion they like at anytime, and if somebody disagrees vocally with them then they are labeled as a "Troll". Anyone that's played WoW knows about thottbot. I found their system of allowing public comments on anything to be really well done. People posting were given a rating score. Anyone could vote on what they posted, +/-. They had a very nice metrics system for adding weight to people, and even highlighting messages that were very relevant, and auto collapsing ones that were just trite fluff. The need for nuking people wasn't needed. They wort of auto nuked, and long flame fests sorta got buried in a thread while relevant information and good discussion managed to naturally rise to the top. if you want to look at it, www.thottbot.com click around and you'll find something, then look below for comments. --S

Shatter 2009-01-13T08:03:19Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#75a13e13-9397-4e42-a46b-db4204463345 2009-01-13T07:48:26Z 2009-01-13T07:48:26Z

1) I get your point that users should use the ignore feature, but this only works for PMs. Maybe you should offer this as a button in people's inbox so they know they have it. Right now its an option on the offending person's profile only, so far as I know. 2) define "security model"? Does that mean hacking? You won't do anything unless and until they hack tribe.net? Until then they can carry on like apes in any given tribe with weak kneed moderators? Bah. Crapola. Until you offer a way in a tribe to hide (auto collapse) an ignored user's posts, you have a system where the douches can drive out the good users. Word is already out its a troll fiesta now, so lets see how this hands off, user-beware, seek the long-gone mod approach works. My ripple of evil goes something along the lines of trolls overrunning any 'high value target" tribe that doesn't go private, and the less invested people surfing on. Unless you have some additional tools coming online soon, and I mean *soon* maybe this was a bad time to choose to make this kind of announcement. I get how reasonable it is, but it has an impact on image, and its not a good one. You guys should be more mindful of that image, given how tarnished it is at present. Its not reasonable or logical, but neither is the average "consumer". At present, this is an open invite to abusers. Its your house, how much free reign will you give to the buttheads before they wreck not only your party but your whole house? Just wondering...many sites have tools that can be used by the community to neuter lame users (rating posts, blocking content with custom filters, etc.) Getting some more of that online before throwing open the doors to well known douchebags would seem to have been in order. Just sayin... Strike one in my book.

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-13T07:48:26Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#063979f3-26c6-4a7d-9026-b2999be594bd 2009-01-13T07:34:29Z 2009-01-13T07:34:29Z

And how would joe average know the difference?

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-13T07:34:29Z $item.owner.firstName http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#6766b891-c24c-49bd-b350-6906c23467c1 2009-01-13T03:52:40Z 2009-01-13T03:52:40Z

People use the term "stalking" here to describe anyone who is simply bothering them alot. But stalking has a legal definition. It is usually defined by statutes, and most states now have their own statutes to deal with stalkers. In the common law, there was no civil tort or crime recognized for "stalking." Instead, you had to try to fit this peculiar activity into other torts and crimes, such as assault, invasion of privacy, etc. It was never a good fit. After some sensational cases and growing public awareness, states finally passed statutes against the conduct, but this is a recent thing and is still not well understood by the public. Texas, for example, has a stalking statute that gives the victim a civil cause of action for damages, but the requirements are very specific and a lot of activity that you and I might think of as stalking falls short of meeting the requirements under the statute. It takes an entire pattern of conduct and a lot of apparent stalkers are able to skate around it. But what is interesting is now we have federal and state cyberstalking laws which are, by contrast, very vague and broad, so vague that many lawyers doubt they are constititional. But there you have it. If you are being stalked on line, there is a good chance the conduct is illegal and at least in theory, you could take legal action. If you are being stalked by somone online and it is serious enough for you to want to take some action, you should contact the police and/or a lawyer. But first research the applicable cyber stalking laws in your jurisdiction, including the federal statute. If it is not serious enough to take legal action, the best policy is probably to ignore it.

$item.owner.firstName 2009-01-13T03:52:40Z Malvado Supremo http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#c2b1d05a-a880-4f2f-a06b-68d7ccb17622 2009-01-13T00:56:33Z 2009-01-13T00:56:33Z

The word certainly got out quickly that trolling was no longer a bannable offense. The number of trolls on the various tribes that they traditionally seek out went through the roof not long ago, relative to the previous. Was like a revival or something. I guess the hardcore will have to either leave and create their own tribes or else stage a coup and get the mod removed. Its too bad the content will be forced to suffer until that point however. Casual users will be left by the wayside too easily, I would think. Then again, the number of 'dead' accounts on tribe is probably already staggering. I guess time will tell if this 'fix it yourself' attitude will catch on. Maybe their inaction will spur moderators to care for their communities. Then again, nothing dramatic has changed on this front in what, a couple years? Why would it? I guess the diasaffected will have to create new, lesser known, less popular tribes, and spam the dying tribe as their near sole means of advertising it, until Tribe fixes Search, that is. Well, my jury's out. Skeptical, but I get the point.

Malvado Supremo 2009-01-13T00:56:33Z prometheusPAN http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#f7e7d95b-ea96-4a56-94b4-ae92e6ff3b37 2009-01-10T16:46:53Z 2009-01-10T16:46:53Z

again and again, how many times do we run around in these circles? ignoring somebody is not a meaningful tactic, and moderators are not a meaningful solution when somebody follows you from tribe to tribe and you then have to explain or deal with politics to one moderator after another. An abusive person over certain red lines should be taken care of by tribe staff, and no amount of BS that you ar enot culpable would fly in a real live legal situation no matter how well your lawyers wrote it fifteen different ways. Again, your complicitness in creating a troll uber friendly environment makes the system entropic. That cuts down on how smart the tribes are, it cuts down on how civil they are, its cuts down on how much membership you have and how many new members you attract, and sooner or later, it spirals out of control and then the federal government cracks down and it goes out of your hands. No merely saying it is so changes the facts, and your "authority" means less than nothing to me, or the feds, or to the issue of culpability if you let an abusive person loose on the population and do nothing about it.

prometheusPAN 2009-01-10T16:46:53Z TOU (Terms of Use) http://faq.tribe.net/thread/5236b51a-6e50-4f17-83cd-3144b44b8081#950ef290-f06c-4863-89df-50e96adb6dd7 2009-01-10T09:21:09Z 2009-01-10T09:21:09Z

Tribe provides and maintains tools to allow users to ignore each other. It is an offended user's responsibility to use these tools as a first line of defense against unwanted attention. Comments posted in tribes are the tribe moderator's sole responsibility to police. While we will support a moderator in policing their tribe, the sole recourse an offended user has to unwanted attention is with the moderator(s) of the tribe(s) in which the unwanted attention is posted. We will further take action against any user who attempts to break Tribe's security model in any way to bypass these mechanisms for malicious reasons.

TOU (Terms of Use) 2009-01-10T09:21:09Z